Divemaster Responsibilities

[Divenomad]

SSI has a dive guide rating. I have not looked closely at the standards (2009) since I've surpassed this rating and have not had to look at it closely. It seems to be an advanced card,rescue card, 1st aid and CPR, 50 dives, O2 provider. No science requirement, no teaching aspects, not even teaching snorkelig unless you supplement the training.No opinion, just offering information.

Nomad

I have read every post in this and the other more notorious thread, and I am baffled about the distinction between a DM and a DG, and this explanation of it as PADI-speak is even more interesting since I didn't know that PADI speaks of it. People are writing as if "Dive Guide" is some sort of lesser level of certification than divemaster. If so, it does not exist in PADI or any other system I know if. If someone can tell me what certifying agency has something called "Dive Guide," I would love to see the details. I have never encountered this term used as a distinction until the various discussions of this incident, so I would appreciate it if someone would give me a precise and authoritative explanation.

What has been recently mentioned and is very true is that what a divemaster does in fulfilling his or her duties varies tremendously from area to area and from operator to operator. I have written a number of posts pointing that out. People who have only experienced divemasters working in one or two styles naturally think that what they see is representative of all divemasters, but that it very far from the truth. Go to enough places and you will see everything imaginable, from staying on the boat and barely paying attention to being fully involved in dive planning and safety. Exactly 11 days ago I heard one of the most experienced divemasters in the Hawai'ian islands tell a group of divers that they were working as a group, and every one of them should consider her to be their buddy. "I am your buddy!" were her exact words, which is the exact opposite of what many people in this thread say is true.

People who have not been to a lot of different places and seen a lot of different styles should be careful about pronouncing the way things are.

 

[pilot fish]

False perception perpetrated by Dive Op or DM pre dive?

The status of the DM does not change.What does change is the FALSE perception many have as to what that status is.

 

[boulderjohn]

False perception perpetrated by Dive Op or DM pre dive?

Just as many divers who have dived primarily with one kind of DM role think that their experience is everyone's experience, many DMs assume that all divers know what they will be doing on that dive and don't explain their role clearly, if at all.

When I was newly certified, I did all my diving for a while in Cozumel, where DMs assemble your equipment, plan the dive, and lead the dive group. I assumed that's what all DMs did. When I did my first Florida diving, I was just sitting around waiting for the DM to do his thing and wondering why my gear wasn't getting set up for me and why I wasn't being told a dive plan. Since I had even gotten my weights in the shop before the dive, the Florida DM had no role at all in my actual diving. Because I assumed we would be diving in a led group, I had not even looked around for a buddy. When it came time for the actual dive, I finally figured out what was happening and scrambled quickly.

I think that there is frequently a whole of assuming going on when people get on a boat to dive. People with limited experience assume that this particular DM will act the way DMs in their past experience have acted, and DMs often assume that everyone on the boat knows without being told what their precise role will be.

 

[pilot fish]

That is very true. I wonder if the person they are calling a DM is in actual fact a DM? It now appears that term is often used when the person is just a DG, new term, or even less than that. That is very misleading. Intentionally I think.

Just as many divers who have dived primarily with one kind of DM role think that their experience is everyone's experience, many DMs assume that all divers know what they will be doing on that dive and don't explain their role clearly, if at all.

When I was newly certified, I did all my diving for a while in Cozumel, where DMs assemble your equipment, plan the dive, and lead the dive group. I assumed that's what all DMs did. When I did my first Florida diving, I was just sitting around waiting for the DM to do his thing and wondering why my gear wasn't getting set up for me and why I wasn't being told a dive plan. Since I had even gotten my weights in the shop before the dive, the Florida DM had no role at all in my actual diving. Because I assumed we would be diving in a led group, I had not even looked around for a buddy. When it came time for the actual dive, I finally figured out what was happening and scrambled quickly.

I think that there is frequently a whole of assuming going on when people get on a boat to dive. People with limited experience assume that this particular DM will act the way DMs in their past experience have acted, and DMs often assume that everyone on the boat knows without being told what their precise role will be.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

OK, let me summarize what we've learned so far in regards to the difference between a DM and a DG. DM tells jokes, does a calypso tip dance and let's divers go to different depths in as many groups as they want, while he points out cool stuff. If an accident occurs to any member of the group of divers he is leading on the dive, he then becomes a DG with zero responsibilty. Did I miss anything? Oh, yeah, the Dive Op will call everyone a DM, till an accident occurs and then the DM automatically reverts to DG status, that has had minimal trianing in safety, rescue and general dive procedures.

I had a diver get killed once when I was leading a dive as a DM. You can be damn sure I became a "DG" when we talked to the homicide investigator and Coast Guard and I was also an unpaid volunteer NOT an employee. I was eventually told that even accepting a waiver of the charter fee could be interprerted as receiving payment and I was therefore an employee. I never even asked if accepting tips was relevant, but I didn't receive any tips that day anyway.

 

[pilot fish]

You bear out what has been asserted many times on this board by people that have observed this quick transformatin - DM to DG in an instant. You give proof that it does happen. Thank you very much for your honesty in setting the record straight.

Let me ask you this, do you think there was anything you might have done differently, aside from hold the deceased in your arms, that would have had a different outciome on that dive.

Let me point out, I think you now know this, that making a statment that you are NOT an employee, when in fact you are, is fraud and is making a material mistatement?: A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.:

I had a diver get killed once when I was leading a dive as a DM. You can be damn sure I became a "DG" when we talked to the homicide investigator and Coast Guard and I was also an unpaid volunteer NOT an employee. I was eventually told that even accepting a waiver of the charter fee could be interprerted as receiving payment and I was therefore an employee. I never even asked if accepting tips was relevant, but I didn't receive any tips that day anyway.

 

[Splash-X]

More and more dive operators I use here in Florida, from Tampa to Jupiter/WPB, down to the Keys are starting to include large signs in their shop that state, the DM on the boat does not enter the water with you. The DM is there to assist you on the boat and surface only. If you feel you need a guide they will glady rent one to you.


I think one of the questions any diver should be asking the operator when booking a trip is, is this a dive with a guided tour or a "turn them loose" dive?

Jupiter Dive Center puts a DM in the water to carry the dive flag. They make it clear that EVERYONE is to watch their own depth and time. They are carring the flag to let the boat know where the group is. If you get seperated, you're on your own.

This is a bit different than a wall dive for sure but the same logic applies here, the dive operator gives you an excellent brief of what to expect and what their role on the trip is.


I see the responsibility as two fold, the diver not taking the time to ask the questions to find out what type of trip they are on and the dive operator not making sure that each and every diver knows what role the crew takes on the boat.

 

[D_B]

Dumpster ... It's not clear from your post if you were employed by the dive op

 

[boulderjohn]

That is very true. I wonder if the person they are calling a DM is in actual fact a DM? It now appears that term is often used when the person is just a DG, new term, or even less than that. That is very misleading. Intentionally I think.

As I said, I had never heard of DG before this thread. A previous post said it is a new SSI rating, but the only place I can find information on it after a very brief search said it is not going to be in place until later this summer. ([seaventures] SSI Dive Guide vs Dive Master and Shark Diving - seaventures - FreeLists)There are therefore no SSI dive guides in existence at the moment. (Someone from SSI can correct me if I am wrong.) It is therefore not possible for someone who is currently only a DG to misrepresent himself as a DM, since there is no such thing as a DG. (Again, please correct me if I am wrong.)

Next, as has been said approximately 1,011 times in various posts in these threads, the "DM" in question was actually an instructor, which is a higher rating. As has already been said many times in these threads, that is usually the case in resort diving. It is very hard to get a job in many resorts unless you can wear many hats, and instructing is one of them.

Finally, in my varied experiences, I have almost never heard any DM represent himself or herself as anything. I don't recall anyone saying something like "Hi, I'm Joe, and I'm certified as a [whatever] by [whoever]. They usually just start talking about the dive.

As Thal said, this DG/DM thing is very much a red herring, and I don't see any point in ever bringing it up here again. It has no bearing on this case, and I don't see how it has any bearing on any case. It just keeps causing confusion.

 

[D_B]

Splash ... I just had this conversation and I think boulderjohn has a valid observation .. a new diver is going to assume that a DM is going to do the same things that their DM did, and not going to know to ask about a DM's responsabilities