Diver Rescue

[DCBC]

The only people who can truly handle any emergency are NASA astronauts..... and MacGyver.

Rescue divers should do the NASA moon-landing preparation course and it should be taught by MacGyver.

"Houston, we...have a problem!" (panicking diver at the surface..)

LOL I don't know about that; when I was at DCIEM I was sent on a segment of the NASA Astronaut training program in preparation for Canada's development of their Astronaut program in 1983. Perhaps things have changed, but there was a fair share of mistakes being made. I think I'd just leave things in the hands of MacGyver.

 

[DCBC]

I must say that I'm somewhat surprised by the number of people that feel that rescue isn't a required skill at any skill level. I would be interested in hearing why they feel this way...?

 

[RU4SKUBA]

Generally speaking, it doesn't matter.

Most divers get certified, dive somewhere on vacation, then don't dive again for ages. By the time they go diving again, most people won't even remember which way the tank faces when attaching it to the BC, to say nothing of how to handle a panicked diver.

People who dive a lot and want rescue training will get it and keep their skills sharp, and the rest don't really matter because even if they take it, they'll forget in a year or two anyway.

I am in agreement and couldn't have said it better myself. Overloading the OW course has probably been a huge concern for the agencies and I don't think the rare --though highly publicized-- accidents warrant a significant overhaul.

It burdens an already-long class (from the perspective of someone who knows nothing of scuba) with rescue scenarios that require more developed diving skills than an OW is able to muster. You just can't expect a cruise ship diver or someone looking for a fun adventure on vacation to do that and not walk away overloaded.

I don't teach my new swimming students to rescue other people because they don't have the skill or experience to do so and that's a very good reason. Teaching a newb to rescue someone gives the implication they're capable of safely doing so and puts multiple lives in jeopardy.

Better the time be spent teaching new students to prevent their own accidents, at this level, IMO.

 

[stakanak]

As a new diver, I honestly believe that the OW system is lacking in skills and rescue. (That does not include some amazing instructors that go out of the way to teach above and beyond the prerequisites). Let it be known I have only experienced Padi.

When better to overload the diver than when they are in a safe environment with a competent teacher observing and ready to react to any emergency? With the inherent danger in this sport nothing should be taken lightly and no one should be babied.
IMHO getting certified should not be easy and there should be a certain amount of people who do not pass with the option of retaking the tests for an abbreviated cost.
Get Wet!

 

[Kingpatzer]

When better to overload the diver than when they are in a safe environment with a competent teacher observing and ready to react to any emergency?

Which is why there is no course where we hand a student a manual and say "ok, there you go. Jump in the water and figure it out for yourself!"

With the inherent danger in this sport nothing should be taken lightly and no one should be babied.

The sport is not particularly dangerous if approached correctly. And being sensitive to each student's particular place on the road to diving is not "babying" them, it's being an effective teacher. If you want a "do it or get the hell out of my class" attitude, there are instructors out there to serve that need. I personally wouldn't consider them worth much, however.

Even guys like DCBC who advocate for much more rigorous OW courses than I believe are necessary is perfectly willing (from what he's said before) to ease his students into diving and to take them along at their pace rather than to simply demand they perform.

IMHO getting certified should not be easy and there should be a certain amount of people who do not pass with the option of retaking the tests for an abbreviated cost.

As an instructor, it is my job to get everyone through the course provided they are willing to continue to try and do so. In my mind any instructor who is willing to simply "fail" a willing student is a very poor instructor indeed. We've had many students come back and repeat pool sessions, some several times, and we don't charge extra for it. Our focus is on the student, not on making Scuba exclusive.

The point being made by those advocating not putting higher end rescue skills into Open Water is precisely that keeping students safe is our goal.

 

[stakanak]

Point well taken Kingpatzer.
Although it is never "simple" to fail a student in any type of teaching environment.
I love the fact that you allow students to repeat pool sessions until comfortable. I hope all agencies, shops and instructors do the same.

 

[DevonDiver]

The sport is not particularly dangerous if approached correctly. ......The point being made by those advocating not putting higher end rescue skills into Open Water is precisely that keeping students safe is our goal.

Exactly. With the exception of some basic life preservation techniques taught on the OW course, such as AAS Ascent and CESA... the primary focus of the course is prevention of incidents.

Prevention is better than cure.

Prevention of incidents stems from doing the basics right and diving conservatively.

There is actually very little that can go wrong with scuba diving. Read the incident reports on this forum, or the annual DAN or BSAC reports, and you will see that 99% of accidents were easily preventable and orginated from divers not adhering to the basic advice, skills and procedures taught at OW level.

Quite frankly...

Don't talk about rescue techniques, until you do a comprehensive buddy check before every dive. Regardless.

Don't worry about underwater rescues, until you apply excellent buddy skills and maintain clear team awareness at all times when diving.

Don't chatter about how to treat a DCI casualty until you create detailed plans for each dive and then follow those plans, without deviation, using precision depth, time and gas awareness.

Don't ponder about diver resucitation techniques until you surface from every dive with an appropriate reserve - that you have planned in advance and monitored throughout the dive.

Get the basics right...and the chances are that you will never have to get involved in any sort of rescue.

 

[PfcAJ]

Exactly. With the exception of some basic life preservation techniques taught on the OW course, such as AAS Ascent and CESA... the primary focus of the course is prevention of incidents.

Prevention is better than cure.

Prevention of incidents stems from doing the basics right and diving conservatively.

There is actually very little that can go wrong with scuba diving. Read the incident reports on this forum, or the annual DAN or BSAC reports, and you will see that 99% of accidents were easily preventable and orginated from divers not adhering to the basic advice, skills and procedures taught at OW level.

Quite frankly...

Don't talk about rescue techniques, until you do a comprehensive buddy check before every dive. Regardless.

Don't worry about underwater rescues, until you apply excellent buddy skills and maintain clear team awareness at all times when diving.

Don't chatter about how to treat a DCI casualty until you create detailed plans for each dive and then follow those plans, without deviation, using precision depth, time and gas awareness.

Don't ponder about diver resucitation techniques until you surface from every dive with an appropriate reserve - that you have planned in advance and monitored throughout the dive.

Get the basics right...and the chances are that you will never have to get involved in any sort of rescue.

Thats pretty bold, imo. I might do it all correctly, and still have to help out another person not on my team. THAT is a real thing and pretty important.

I see the issue with not teaching new divers rescue skills because they aren't good enough to perform them. Seems backwards, though.

The real issue is why is the OW program not good enough to incorporate these skills? It seems like its been watered down to the point of near-helplessness. No gas planning, no rescue training, no o2 training. Just swim around and hope for the best? That's kinda reckless (and extremely popular, unfortunately).

 

[DevonDiver]

Thats pretty bold, imo. I might do it all correctly, and still have to help out another person not on my team. THAT is a real thing and pretty important.

​

The role of the OW course is to train a self-sufficient and safe diver, capable of diving -without supervision- with a buddy of equal or greater experience/ qualification.

It is an entry-level course.

What you are talking about (assisting other groups) is far beyond the requirements of entry-level training. It is about taking responsibility for diving activities, larger groups and organising emergency procedures in general.

Every sport/activity has entry-level training, followed by a progressively advancing system of development. I've been on simular development paths with kayaking, sailing, martial arts, parachuting and mountaineering. None of the agencies governing training in those activities would expect an entry-level course to deal with emergency response and management.

Have a google... find ONE example of a sport or activity whose entry-level training course involves emergency management....

The real issue is why is the OW program not good enough to incorporate these skills? It seems like its been watered down to the point of near-helplessness. .....Just swim around and hope for the best? ...

If that is your perception of the open water course, then you obviously got scammed when you took it.

It's also an insult to all of the instructors who do their utmost to train highly capable and confident entry-level divers.

 

[DCBC]

The role of the OW course is to train a self-sufficient and safe diver, capable of diving -without supervision- with a buddy of equal or greater experience/ qualification.

Yes, but the definition of what it takes to dive self-sufficient is a matter of debate. Is a diver self-sufficient if he hasn't been trained to bring his buddy up from 10 feet of water? I would think not, but you may disagree. I think that is what we are talking about. Where is the bar? what is reasonable? What is sufficient for one Instructor or agency is not for another. Sometimes what is reasonable for one agency is not held to be reasonable by a court of law.

I've been on simular development paths with kayaking, sailing, martial arts, parachuting and mountaineering. None of the agencies governing training in those activities would expect an entry-level course to deal with emergency response and management.

Kayaking, sailing and martial arts and parachuting are not team sports; scuba diving at the entry-level is. In mountaineering, you must be aware of avalanche and recovery of your team unless you are doing a solo climb; which is not at the entry-level. There are always degrees of emergency response and management. In a sport where it's implied that you are responsible for your buddy, what is reasonable? That's the issue.