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Hey Phil - sounds like Stoney Cove to me!! Was there today and the exact same feelings happened at 33m - definitely narcosis and definitely brought on by the cold, dark and poor viz at depth.
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Hey Phil - sounds like Stoney Cove to me!! Was there today and the exact same feelings happened at 33m - definitely narcosis and definitely brought on by the cold, dark and poor viz at depth.
one of the problems with nitrogen narcosis is that you loose the ability to know just how much you are affected of it
you might understand that "yes i am now affected of nitrogen narcosis", but how much will always be a clouded?
since one of the symptoms are that it clouds your judgements, much like alcohol.
one can be a few meters up and see other divers behave in a drunken fashion but they wont know how much.
Also another problem is that on a good day you wont be affected on a bad day you will at the same depth.
you might understand that "yes i am now affected of nitrogen narcosis", but how much will always be a clouded?
since one of the symptoms are that it clouds your judgements, much like alcohol.
one can be a few meters up and see other divers behave in a drunken fashion but they wont know how much.
Also another problem is that on a good day you wont be affected on a bad day you will at the same depth.
FloridaDiver
Guest
I recently took an excellent course in deep air diving through Hal Watts at his site 40 Fathom Grotto in Ocala, FL. His organization, PSA, teaches Deep Air in steps, starting at 100 feet and progressing deeper. You must complete one level before going on to the next. The class stresses dive planning and gas management as well as narcosis management.
The first level was 100ft. I was given a slate as well as a list of tasks to perform at specific times and depths, and to record observations and tank pressures at specific points in the dive.
The 100 ft. dive was relatively easy - I was able to complete the slate with no problem. Things were to change on the next level.
While I have been to 130 feet several times prior to the class - I never had to "think" while there. The effects of narcosis become much more apparent when task loaded. I wasn't able to complete my entire slate, although I did correctly complete most of it. I had to concentrate noticeably harder however. The calming, euphoric effect of narcosis was very apparent at 130. I felt great - but I knew that I wasn't in complete control.
The end result of this experience was a much greater respect for narcosis - even at the relatively "shallow" depth of 130 ft. You may not realize that you're narced until you have to concentrate - such as in an emergency.
By the way - I recommend Hal's program for every diver. The gas management and dive planning knowledge is very important information. If you're coming down to Florida, give Hal a call at 40 Fathom Grotto (352-368-7974) or check his site at www.psa-usa.com.
The first level was 100ft. I was given a slate as well as a list of tasks to perform at specific times and depths, and to record observations and tank pressures at specific points in the dive.
The 100 ft. dive was relatively easy - I was able to complete the slate with no problem. Things were to change on the next level.
While I have been to 130 feet several times prior to the class - I never had to "think" while there. The effects of narcosis become much more apparent when task loaded. I wasn't able to complete my entire slate, although I did correctly complete most of it. I had to concentrate noticeably harder however. The calming, euphoric effect of narcosis was very apparent at 130. I felt great - but I knew that I wasn't in complete control.
The end result of this experience was a much greater respect for narcosis - even at the relatively "shallow" depth of 130 ft. You may not realize that you're narced until you have to concentrate - such as in an emergency.
By the way - I recommend Hal's program for every diver. The gas management and dive planning knowledge is very important information. If you're coming down to Florida, give Hal a call at 40 Fathom Grotto (352-368-7974) or check his site at www.psa-usa.com.
UKPhil
Registered
I took the deep diver course in the Red Sea over Xmas, sat on the bottom at 40m/130ft for a few minutes doing skills checks, writing backwards on a slate, etc. Found I had to concentrate a little more but not much difference. It was a great experience to have been to that depth, even if I rarely do in normal diving. Escaped from the crowds, and it felt very peaceful down there. Certainly overcame a fear of deeper diving, now just need to be careful not to become an addict!
Phil
Phil
Be sure you progress to greater depths with someone who knows what they are doing! I took an experienced diver to just 90' and he was amazed at how much air it took in his bc to start ascending. Then you have to be really careful about doing a controlled ascent. And do stick with the plan...NDL,safety stop etc. They used to teach a 'martini principle' theory to explain how getting narked felt. ie...each atmosphere below 130 was like having another martini. Do not believe that. Like the other diver said we are all different. Some feel it at 100'.Some get slammed in what might be better described as the 'gallon of whiskey' principle. If you follow the rules its fun. If you really want to go deep(below 130') don't mess with air. Go trimix. Its worth it.
"he was amazed at how much air it took in his bc to start ascending."
What was he doing making a buoyant ascent? He should have been neutrally buoyant at depth. To ascent slowly and safely all you need to do is swim up slowly and let air out of your BC as you ascend. There's no reason to put air into a BC to begin an ascent.
DSSW,
WWW
What was he doing making a buoyant ascent? He should have been neutrally buoyant at depth. To ascent slowly and safely all you need to do is swim up slowly and let air out of your BC as you ascend. There's no reason to put air into a BC to begin an ascent.
DSSW,
WWW
You are correct but we were scalloping at 90' in a relatively strong current. It helps to be negative. When it was time to ascend my partner was surprised how much air it took to allow him to swim up. I actually assisted him. The point I do not want new divers to miss is that you should not venture deep without the training. In green water and strong current it can be tricky doing a controlled ascent. It takes practice!
Hi Syruss
I get narced at 25m. I notice this if my buddy asks me how much air I have: I have to think about what to signal for a few seconds.
The arguments on deep dives are endless, but let me tell a little story:
Three weeks ago, a very wacky friend of mine (a DM) was asked to take someone down to 70m for *kicks* on normal air. He agreed to the dive ( I do NOT vouch for his sanity).
The dive was planned, with other divers waiting at intervals with deco tanks, etc.
They went straight down to 78m (in words: seventy-eight meters, you read it right), touched ground, and immediately started to ascend.
Just as they started to ascend, the fellow who wanted the dive suddenly started having probs: his face was lamed, he was unable to close his mouth over the regulator, and panicked.
My DM friend helped as he could, tried to calm him down, helped him hold the regulator in his mouth etc and got him back up again.
So much for *deep* diving. Some people are just nuts, IMHO.
Ok......I will now take my thrashing from all those who love to descend to those levels....I know you are out there
I get narced at 25m. I notice this if my buddy asks me how much air I have: I have to think about what to signal for a few seconds.
The arguments on deep dives are endless, but let me tell a little story:
Three weeks ago, a very wacky friend of mine (a DM) was asked to take someone down to 70m for *kicks* on normal air. He agreed to the dive ( I do NOT vouch for his sanity).
The dive was planned, with other divers waiting at intervals with deco tanks, etc.
They went straight down to 78m (in words: seventy-eight meters, you read it right), touched ground, and immediately started to ascend.
Just as they started to ascend, the fellow who wanted the dive suddenly started having probs: his face was lamed, he was unable to close his mouth over the regulator, and panicked.
My DM friend helped as he could, tried to calm him down, helped him hold the regulator in his mouth etc and got him back up again.
So much for *deep* diving. Some people are just nuts, IMHO.
Ok......I will now take my thrashing from all those who love to descend to those levels....I know you are out there
LY I am agreeing with you again are you still keeping count??
Cost shouldn't be an issue in using He, If its available and you are trained you should use it..
Unfortunately its not always available.... ;( ESpecially outside the US. I'll be going to truk shortly and I've contacted every operator there and No one can provide He fills(at least they can supply O2 for deco and the water is clear and warm). The logistics of trying to get HE shiped and the cylinder returned are turning out to be unrealistic. A diver would have to get He in guam (about $1.10 /cu ft) and have a cylinder shipped to truk by boat (I'll be diving a CCR so I'm trying to get an 80 with 100%he shipped, and leave the tank which would be more than enough for a week of diving plus a bailout mix),a single T or K cell is not that much gas for OC divers(and either purchase the cylinder and discard it or pay shipping back to guam, and this takes time to get to truk)
To make a long story short, am I going to not dive the deeper wreck because I can't get He.. nope, but I'll tell you I'm not going any deeper than 200, and will definately choose the shallowest point I can for the deep wrecks hopefully in the 180ft range..
I'm not really happy about it (I haven't done Air dives that deep in at least 6 years (I've been deeper, but at the time there wasn't any other option)). I still go to 150-160 on air (usually when we check out an unknown wreck that was deeper than we were told)
are you still keeping count??Cost shouldn't be an issue in using He, If its available and you are trained you should use it..
Unfortunately its not always available.... ;( ESpecially outside the US. I'll be going to truk shortly and I've contacted every operator there and No one can provide He fills(at least they can supply O2 for deco and the water is clear and warm). The logistics of trying to get HE shiped and the cylinder returned are turning out to be unrealistic. A diver would have to get He in guam (about $1.10 /cu ft) and have a cylinder shipped to truk by boat (I'll be diving a CCR so I'm trying to get an 80 with 100%he shipped, and leave the tank which would be more than enough for a week of diving plus a bailout mix),a single T or K cell is not that much gas for OC divers(and either purchase the cylinder and discard it or pay shipping back to guam, and this takes time to get to truk)
To make a long story short, am I going to not dive the deeper wreck because I can't get He.. nope, but I'll tell you I'm not going any deeper than 200, and will definately choose the shallowest point I can for the deep wrecks hopefully in the 180ft range..
I'm not really happy about it (I haven't done Air dives that deep in at least 6 years (I've been deeper, but at the time there wasn't any other option)). I still go to 150-160 on air (usually when we check out an unknown wreck that was deeper than we were told)
Lost Yooper
Guest
PSP,
Like anything else, one has to assess and accept their own risk. Making a good assessment is often the hardest part with all the misinformation put out there by money driven fanatics. There's a lot more to deep air than just N2 narcosis that can bite ya.
Good luck.
Mike
Like anything else, one has to assess and accept their own risk. Making a good assessment is often the hardest part with all the misinformation put out there by money driven fanatics. There's a lot more to deep air than just N2 narcosis that can bite ya.
Good luck.
Mike
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