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Another dis-advantage would be the costs associated with helium diving.Consider that tri-mix averages about 60cents per cuft here in the states ,even a shallow dive could 50-100 dollars.There is then the $1000-$3000 that the courses will cost.Extra gear and assorted other un-forseen extra.etc....The bottom line is do you really want or need to go that deep?This is the first question asked by a lot of the more advanced instructors.Walter and NetDoc,quit picking on a fellow Floridian.What ,with the election and all,we got to stick together........
 
"Inert" and "noble" ar two completely different things. Inert gasses are gasses that when we breth them in, our body dosent use them and we simply exhale them out (such as niterogen, and actualy all the other gasses but oxigen, that are not toxic). "Noble" gasses, on the other hand, are gasses that do not react CHEMICALLY with other materials, wich makes them, ofcourse, also "inert".

As for narcotics- from experience, you do not get as narced with niterox, as you would with air. Oxigen might be as narcotic as niterogen, but either since our body uses the oxigen or the effects are not cumulative we do not get as narced. Besides, I belive that with oxigen, the toxicity is differnt, and not narcotic. It leads to seisures and other maladies, reffered to as Oxigen Poisoning, which is completly different from nitrogen narcosis.

As for other gasses: All gasses are actualy poisenous in such or other degree. All gasses have certain affects that they couse when used at higher partial pressures than normal. Effects of different gasses are not cumulative, and each has it's own effect.

Helium couses HPNS at higher partial pressures, which is a kind of wierd seisures, and get's the person very upset (heard it from people that experienced that when working with heliox at 200 M deep). When used at more "conventional" depths helium is usualy free of toxic effects, but it does conduct heat faster than other gasses, so it makes you cold faster.

Another problem with heliox/trimix is the cost. filling a tank with these will cost about 50$, whille air or niterox will cost much less (4-7$). So when diving to depths that do not require it, there's no reason to use it.
 
First off, 100days-a-year, I do not remember directing anything at you; sorry if it appeared that way. On the contrary, I think I agree with everything you have posted on this topic thus far... unless you were the one who said that NitrOx fixes narcosis.

Secondly, Liquid, inert means just that... not reactive. While our bodies do not seem to react with nitrogen many chemicals will. Look at all the nitrides and such. I don't think you can name one compound using helium or argon... they just don't combine with other elements. They stay the same, while nitrogen does not! Only the noble gasses are considered truly inert!

Narcosis is a fact for EVERY air and NitrOx diver, especially below 90ft! Those who feel differently are certainly free to do so, I just don't want to be diving with you when you go south and continue to deny it. Know your limitations, and dive within them EVEN if it chips away at your precious self-image. Humility is the beginning of all understanding. If you see your self as "above" certain priciples and laws, than you need to re-evaluate your safety as a diver. This is not directed at anyone in particular, but just a blanket statement for all to cogitate upon. Ignore it if you will.
 
NetDoc,
Narcosis is a fact for EVERY air and NitrOx diver, especially below 90ft!
Well said.:tree:Bob
 
NetDoc,not me....it looked like there were some inferences made about rstone....a fellow diver from Jax.
 
luckily, -I- was not the one to make that comment... they were subtle, wry and sly though, and did make me chuckle. I dare say that worse has been said about me on this board.
 
Thats ok Tony.. walter can make all subtle, wry, sly and ostentatiously childish comments he wants about me. Some people just cant help but to flaunt there EGO and to parade oneself around on this board while showing contempt for others on here.

Walter you would of made a good politician.
:boom:
 
"quit picking on a fellow Floridian.What ,with the election and all,we got to stick together........" "it looked like there were some inferences made about rstone....a fellow diver from Jax."

I don't remember picking on anyone. All I did was indicate my willingness to believe rstone's statements about his lack of susceptibility to narcosis.

I personally don't know him. I do know we usually disagree on most issues and I suspect English is not his native tongue. One time I agree with him and I'm accused of picking on him. Don't worry, it's not likely to happen often.

DSSW,

WWW™
 
Hi all, a little side note on N2.
The quick table below gives a comparison of the narcotic properties of gases, which are available breathing mixtures for diving. For deep diving operations nitrogen is replaced with gases that have a lower narcotic potential usually helium. Believe it or not, neon or hydrogen can be used as well.

Gas Symbol/Narcotic level/Molecules
Helium He/ 0.235/4
Neon Ne/ 0.274/20
Hydrogen H2/0.541/2
Nitrogen N2/1.0/28
Argon Ar/2.326/40
Krypton Kr/7.143/83.8


Some more info for ya,
Increasing the N2 Partial pressure induces symptoms of narcosis or anesthesia. (Do you mind if I operate on you kidney?) This is generally known as Narcosis to you and me and are similar to the effects of alcohol. Now how many of you out there have said, “Oh, I am not drunk I can drive”, and you may not have even been legal to do so. Narcosis starts fairly early. Just like when we have had only one or two martinis & don’t feel it. Fact of the matter at 2 to 4 bars you the diver has mild impairment of performance on unpracticed tasks, and a mild case of euphoria (a bar is = 14.5030 psi.). At 4 bars you have delayed response to visual and auditory stimuli, at 4 to 6 bars you have laughter & loquacity that is over come by your self control (some of us have none of this so no one will miss it), you also will have overconfidence and calculation errors. At over 6 bars and you will start to trip, I do not mean road trip, I mean hallucinations, very impaired judgment. As you climb up the pressure scale to 8 bars uncontrolled laughter and hysteria become the norm and as 8 bars approach you have severe impairment of your intellectual performance. On the good side your manual dexterity is less affected. Above 8 bars & up to 10 bars A huge delay in response to stimuli, your concentration diminishes & if you not there yet you will have mental confusion. Over 10 bars you have severe impairment of practical functions, judgment, black outs, memory issues, euphoria, almost total loss of any intellectual and perceptive faculties. (Which some of us have this problem on the surface but we do seem to get along) If you have not been hallucinating by now, “you’ve got issues” and last but not least unconsciousness leading to death (since we are underwater) Hope you enjoy this little tidy bit of info. And the next time some diver tells you he built up a tolerance to N2 you can laugh and know he is narc-ed on the surface and you know to swim the other way.

Yours till the seas calms,
 
but ya gotta be brain dead and have no sense of humor to be a politician. -YOU- don't qualify! Oh yeah, you have to take offense at everything the opposition is saying about you too...

and, uh, UWsince79... I don't think I would mix Oxygen and Hydrogen under that much pressure... can you spell Hindenburg???
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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