Diving techniques: New vs Old

[duckbill]

They swam with their hands that way because the Creature from the Black Lagoon did!

I never thought those guys who hover around with their arms crossed looked cool....they look like they are downright COLD(shiver, shiver)

Anyhow, I don't swim with my hands while on the move, but I often position my body by sculling my arms/hands when static as it is usually more efficient to do so than to use my legs/feet.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

What I'm gathering from all this is that I pretty much made an ass out of myself for suggesting such a thing, or bringing the topic up. Oh well, it's all good.

Here's what started it.
If it was just watching the stunt divers on Sea Hunt (not one but virtually all of them) employ a technique of doing a crawl stroke thrown into a pattern with several kick cycles, I would have thought that was just something they did for the show.
However as I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong, they had Brown, Parry, and several other divers doing this technique in every dive scene. Not only that but I saw a scuba diving promo clip on Youtube featuring Zale and several others that Sam Miller knew personally BTW, and they all seemed to use some sort of hand movements in their diving style (completely unrelated to Sea Hunt).
I'm a little confused as to why the elite divers and the best of the best back then would have agreed to use any style that would have been considered strokery of the day, just to please a producer(?) that probably had absolutely no diving experience whatsoever. I would think that the underwater coordinator (Courtney Brown) would have told them that that's not proper technique and they don't dive that way.

I was cruising around on Hulu one hight and found an old Grade B from the 50's that involved a sea monster and diving (Corny as hell and hilarious). I was intersted to see what type gear they were using so I watched on. It was all Aqualung stuff from what I could tell. But anyway a very similar technique was used, so I just assumed this was common practice back then.
But if you guys are telling me that I'm full of bull___t then I stand corrected. You guys were there, I wasn't, so I'll take your word for it.

Out...

 

[DCBC]

What I'm gathering from all this is that I pretty much made an ass out of myself for suggesting such a thing, or bringing the topic up.

I wouldn't think that; you made an honest observation. There are others here who were diving before me (1965), so I don't know if this is what was taught before "my time." I do remember the divers on Sea Hunt using the technique you mention; I just chalked it up to Hollywood.

 

[Akimbo]

...I do remember the divers on Sea Hunt using the technique you mention; I just chalked it up to Hollywood.

You did better than me; I actually tried swimming like that and then tried to figure out why it didn’t work! That is probably the only reason I remembered anything about it. I thought ZKY's observations and conclusion's were completely appropriate. I certainly would have considered training and equipment differences before the Hollywood effect.

ZKY/Eric: I apologize if my post left you with that impression, it certainly was not my intent.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

ZKY/Eric: I apologize if my post left you with that impression, it certainly was not my intent.

No worries at all, don't sweat it.

I'm just still wondering about the technique:
If someone grew up watching Sea Hunt and decidecd from that to go out and start diving, let's say on their own (no formal instruction), they would have a pretty warped view of what a diver should look like underwater based on the debunking here on this board.

It would be like a show about a proffesional race car driver out racing with a cigarette, a cup of coffee between the legs, a cell phone in his ear, and steering with his knees, all just for Hollywood effect.

Back to the diving: If that's the case then it sure doesn't say much for the integrity of the diving staff back then if they caved into Hollywood with a bunch of bull___t like that. I would think then that all their diving peers watching the show would never let them live it down.
"Hey did you see Brown flailing his arms in that scene, what a stroke!!"

 

[Akimbo]

… If someone grew up watching Sea Hunt and decidecd from that to go out and start diving, let's say on their own (no formal instruction), they would have a pretty warped view of what a diver should look like underwater based on the debunking here on this board…

I didn’t do too well emulating Hollywood when it came to women either.

… If that's the case then it sure doesn't say much for the integrity of the diving staff back then if they caved into Hollywood with a bunch of bull___t like that…

View this comment with suspicion since I was closer to a student than "diving staff" at that time. I think the tiny community was so happy to see anything promoting the very new and exotic sport of diving that a few theatrical flaws were minor. I suspect my instructor laughed at episodes when they first aired just as much as we do now seeing them on DVD.

At least in my case, SCUBA training was much longer — 6 ocean dives and 6-8 pool sessions plus classroom. I don’t remember anything even mentioned about how to use fins or move through the water. Everyone was competent in the water and we really learned hyperbaric physics and physiology before getting wet. I suppose instructors thought their job was to equip us to figure stuff out that wasn't likely to hurt us on our own. It was much less regimented then. Nobody did "drills" after getting certified, took additional courses, or thought they knew enough to standardize technique. NAUI had formed, but I didn't hear about it until several years later.

A little off subject here: I am dumbfounded by some of the questions I see posted on the Basic and Advanced forums, but some of the answers are absolutely frightening. My career has not exposed me to the evolution of sport diving training so reading Scubaboard was a real shock.

I guess this is the normal evolution of humans. Old farts say stuff like "Damn kids don’t know anything anymore". It appears I have arrived.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I didn’t do too well emulating Hollywood when it came to women either.



View this comment with suspicion since I was closer to a student than "diving staff" at that time. I think the tiny community was so happy to see anything promoting the very new and exotic sport of diving that a few theatrical flaws were minor. I suspect my instructor laughed at episodes when they first aired just as much as we do now seeing them on DVD.

At least in my case, SCUBA training was much longer — 6 ocean dives and 6-8 pool sessions plus classroom. I don’t remember anything even mentioned about how to use fins or move through the water. Everyone was competent in the water and we really learned hyperbaric physics and physiology before getting wet. I suppose instructors thought their job was to equip us to figure stuff out that wasn't likely to hurt us on our own. It was much less regimented then. Nobody did "drills" after getting certified, took additional courses, or thought they knew enough to standardize technique. NAUI had formed, but I didn't hear about it until several years later.

A little off subject here: I am dumbfounded by some of the questions I see posted on the Basic and Advanced forums, but some of the answers are absolutely frightening. My career has not exposed me to the evolution of sport diving training so reading Scubaboard was a real shock.

I guess this is the normal evolution of humans. Old farts say stuff like "Damn kids don’t know anything anymore". It appears I have arrived.

Everything above:
BOY, AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH!

Just for the sake of discussion and for kicks and grins, (I get to hyjack my own thread), I'll bet that if just one of the big three agencies started a class called Open Water Plus or Open Water Gold or pick a name <it doesn't matter. The idfea of the class would be to offer an old school training cirriculum exactly like they used to have back then. From the 400 yard swims before each class to the full skin diving course before any scuba, all the ditch and don skills, buddy breathing etc. I'll bet you that no matter what they would have to charge for this class people would be lining up.
At the LDS when people sign up for open water, if the sales person told them about the standard open water class and what it included then showed them the new product (open water plus) as an alternative, I'll bet you a very large percentage of people would pay the extra for the training. And you can bet as soon as one agency does it the others would have to follow suit.

Instead we have agencies like GUE and UTD offering upgraded classes to people who believe they were shorted on open water training and don't feel confident in the water. Their fundies classes seem to be grabbing a pretty good chunk of the advanced training business just for the recreational market. As much as that whole DIR concept kind of turnes my stomach with their indoctrination philosophy, I got to hand it to them, they have succeeded.

 

[DCBC]

Just for the sake of discussion and for kicks and grins, (I get to hyjack my own thread), I'll bet that if just one of the big three agencies started a class called Open Water Plus or Open Water Gold or pick a name <it doesn't matter. The idfea of the class would be to offer an old school training cirriculum exactly like they used to have back then. From the 400 yard swims before each class to the full skin diving course before any scuba, all the ditch and don skills, buddy breathing etc. I'll bet you that no matter what they would have to charge for this class people would be lining up.

I train like this (a 50 hour program) and haven't had a problem getting students. I think you have the 50 year-old overweight guy who's going to look at fish on his vacation and wants to get certified in the easiest way possible and the young guys that take the attitude of "I'm looking for a challenge." Boy have you come to the right place...

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I train like this (a 50 hour program) and haven't had a problem getting students. I think you have the 50 year-old overweight guy who's going to look at fish on his vacation and wants to get certified in the easiest way possible and the young guys that take the attitude of "I'm looking for a challenge." Boy have you come to the right place...

And for the 50 year old overweight out of shape person there would always be the standard PADI class for them.

But if someone flashed a plus card on a dive boat when it was sign up time, that plus card would really mean something. The way I think it should be would be to have open water, advanced, rescue, freediving, some DM stuff, and a whole lot more all in one class. It would be better for the agency because they would be getting more money right off the bat and they would have some very happy students (the ones who passed) The ones who didn't, oh well, there's always regular open water. One problem I see would be to find instructors to fill the positions that would be able to do the stuff themselves.

I know that if they offered such a thing when I got certified I would have been all over it, especially if they expplained it well and showed me the differences.
Even now, I hear about stuff they've eliminated from when I got certified and I can't believe it!
I got certified in '98 so I'm still a baby in the diving world.

I don't know how much further down they think they can take it. Eventually I would think somebody would get the bright idea to restore training as a sales edge.
Quality training, wow! what a concept!

 

[Akimbo]

… I guess this is the normal evolution of humans. Old farts say stuff like "Damn kids don’t know anything anymore". It appears I have arrived….

Everything above:
BOY, AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH!...

I really appreciate your seconding that — damn kids.

Seriously, the root problem is it is expensive and things are different. There aren’t a lot of people willing to teach for the gratification like when the sport was new. Dive shops like the old days are not likely to return, people interested in learning are different, insurance and liability problems if you don’t stick to the curriculum are very real. Equipment is different. You can't go back.

I don’t care what you say, I am not giving up my Freedom Pack and wing for straps on a bare tank and a horse collar!