Diving Without certification...

[StevenN]

Just wait and do it right, a few weeks won't make a big difference.
Even though you're used to being in the water doesn't mean you shouldn't have your first scuba dive with a qualified instructor. Those folks spend a lot of time and money to get properly trained to take new divers out.
In the unlikely event that something does go wrong who would you rather have at your side, someone who is an average diver that decided it was okay to break the rules or a qualified instructor who has dealt with problems before?

 

[Gambitt]

Oh, and here's a "key point" from the Instructor who taught me to dive....

If your "buddy" goes down, after you give the signal for "up"; he's actually just given you the signal for "I'm an Idiot, and No longer your responsibility"

 

[StevenN]

Oh, and here's a "key point" from the Instructor who taught me to dive....

If your "buddy" goes down, after you give the signal for "up"; he's actually just given you the signal for "I'm an Idiot, and No longer your responsibility"

That's actually pretty funny.

 

[Crush]

Hey, if you are a a pretty decent swimmer, and do plenty of spearfishing free diving, you don't even need your buddy! Why stop at 15 feet - that is for wimps! Head to 60 feet, or even 120! Just make sure that your kids are through university and your house it paid off.

Please post to tell us how it turned out!

 

[cheeseman]

If I were you, I would love to do it.

I was on a dive boat in Hawaii, and there were 4-5 "discover diving" students on it --- had never before been diving, and recieved (literally) a 10 minute briefing on how the equipment worked/safety. We went in slightly surgy water to around 30-40 feet, and i saw a few of these guys freak out at times, but they were all fine and mostly enjoyed the experience. However, one DM for 5 divers (brand new ones, at that) was absolutely STUPID and needless to say, I won't be diving with them again.

In short, if you feel competant and your buddy is not an idiot, then I think it's okay. Don't hesitate to call the dive if you don't feel comfortable and be sure to read up on safety beforehand.

 

[txapacheguy]

My resume as a diver hardly makes me qualified to issue advice on this subject, save the fact that my diving "career" began in a similar fashion. While living in South Korea, I conducted a handful of dives prior to getting my certification last year. Several times were in the company of English speaking instructors, and a few were in the company of Korean divers who would probably be the equivalent of a divemaster (there was a bit of a language barrier, so its hard to say). None of them could be counted as training dives by any agencies standard as far as I know. Once was even in the shark tank in the Busan aquarium, where the instructor (my dive buddy for the dive) was certainly having to divide attention between myself and the other handful of people diving with us.

The advice not to start off diving on the wrong foot (i.e. not certified or with an instructor) is impossible for me to refute. I probably understood a bit more about diving than the average person when I dove in Korea prior to being certified. I certainly understood the risks of going out diving with a couple of guys I could not even converse well with on the surface, but somehow survived without incident.

If you do choose to go out with your friends, you are not likely to become a casualty at 15', but do heed the warnings already given to you and know that you are embarking on a serious venture. If my memory serves me correctly, a person ascending from 15 feet while holding their breath risks lung over-expansion injury. If this is incorrect, I am certain that the professionals on this board will let us know very quickly. Good luck with your OW certification, and stay safe!!!

 

[Gambitt]

I'll admit it, I did my first "Deep Dive/Wreck Dive" ( the Lily Parsons, near Brockville, Ontario) long before I ever got the Cert.

But... It was with Two divers, whom I had been diving with for two years. Both had done that dive in excess of ten times each, and who knew My ability, and were confident that I could do the dive.

Between the three of us, we had 5 tanks, (they both had twins) and each of us had a pony. Was I "qualified" in the book... No way!

But the first Apollo Astronauts, weren't "Certified" by the book either!

 

[Thalassamania]

At 15 ft, you are at less than one added atm of pressure, so if worse came to worse, you could dump the gear, and head to the surface, with very minimal risk of an over expansion injury.

Seeing as you free-dive, you should be comfortable in the water, so that's to your benefit.

When you think about it, the first pool-lesson that you take as a scuba diver can be 15ft, and what experience do you really have? And at 15ft, Micheal Phelps couldn't stay down on a tank of air, long enough to hit a decompression limit, so that's not a concern either.

I guess the bottom line is, What do You know of his "experience", and are you comfortable putting your life in their hands,(at a minimal degree)?

It only takes about 4 feet to embolize you, so there is not "safety in shallowness."

If nothing else, swimming over a reef wearing a weight-loaded BCD or weight belt without good buoyancy control, you're a threat to the corals.

Breathing through a regulator underwater can feel more 'constricted/restricted' than you're used to, and the thought that you're dependent on that regulator for air can up your anxiety levels. Anxious folks can burn through a tank of air a lot faster than other people expect (that's what I did during an open water training dive); running out of air suddenly (when you've just exhaled, by the way, not with a lung full of air to hold your breath) in a weighted BCD at 15' deep while the other divers are distracted meandering around sight-seeing, and you panic not knowing how to get their attention NOW or how long till you black out, well...

I recommend getting your OW cert. before you go play.

Richard.

Now I'm losing sight of your reasoning, what you describe is how most newly certified divers that I see dive, so what's to gain by being certified?

I would not recommend this. Without proper understanding of the fine details and techniques of diving, like those an instructor would provide, SCUBA can be very dangerous. You may be fine this time, but what if you are not?

Have some of us breathed off a regulator once or twice a foot or two underwater to see if we could get away with it? Sure, but even 15' can be a different world.

Anything more tha 4 feet, if you ascent holding a full breath, can kill you.

These days it is very much the exception for people to dive in advance of their certification unless they are under the supervision of a dive pro. (In fact, a lot of divers never dive without the supervision of a divemaster even after they are certified.) They are also, however, unlikely to be fit, skilled and comfortable in the water, knowledgeable about boats and the sea, etc. I don't think it would be reckless for an experienced free diver to do a shallow dive like that if you understand and follow the most basic rule: never close your airway.

Regardless of the actual quality of a lot of the training, most people today start off diving by taking a class ... that was not always the case and most of us survived, for example I dove of 12 years before taking a class, I only took that class because some friends were taking it, it was fun, but rather a waste of time, same with the PADI AI program I did. It was not until the early 1970s that I finally took a class that caught up with were I was and taught me something useful.

I'll admit it, I did my first "Deep Dive/Wreck Dive" ( the Lily Parsons, near Brockville, Ontario) long before I ever got the Cert.

But... It was with Two divers, whom I had been diving with for two years. Both had done that dive in excess of ten times each, and who knew My ability, and were confident that I could do the dive.

Between the three of us, we had 5 tanks, (they both had twins) and each of us had a pony. Was I "qualified" in the book... No way!

But the first Apollo Astronauts, weren't "Certified" by the book either!

But they had read the book and moved forward in small, well controlled steps.

 

[Jeff Toorish]

At 15 ft, you are at less than one added atm of pressure, so if worse came to worse, you could dump the gear, and head to the surface, with very minimal risk of an over expansion injury.

I have to disagree --shallow depths can be more dangerous. The most significant difference in pressure happens from about 15 feet to the surface. In addition to a greater risk of overexpansion injury, there is also IPE, whch happens in shallow water.

This is a quote from the National Institute fro Occupational Safety and Health: "Lung overexpansion can result in pulmonary barotraumas causing serious damage to the lungs, including collapse [Bookspan 1995], even when ascending from relatively shallow depths and on relatively short dives. "

The fact is, when you are in the pool or on a training dive, an instructor is with you. A certified diver who suggests an uncertified diver come along on a "trust me" dive isn't someone I would want to dive with.

Jeff

 

[friscuba]

The shallowest death from air embolism I can recall was a British military pilot in a training pool on a spare air type of deal, I'm thinking it was 38-42 inches of water. The link's been posted before in a similar thread.

PADI only relatively recently started allowing Divemasters to perform confined water intros to the kind of depths you're talking about, and that's after some training with an Instructor specifically geared towards the pool or confined water intros. If your friend is an Instructor or DM trained to do it, I'd go for it, otherwise I'd take a pass.