Diving Without certification...

[Nishan]

I would advise to get certified first. Its easy enough to do now and guarantees a certain minimum level of training (with emphasis on minimum).

But I would oppose those who bring out doomsday scenarios for diving without certification. Under proper guidance its fine. I learnt to dive in a local dive club where we were taught by experienced divers but none of them were instructors. I did the PADI OW a year later and I know i learnt more from my club than in the PADI course. In turn I have taken people out diving despite not being an instructor. In Sri Lanka, for many years most locals just learnt from other divers as PADI courses were too expensive and were primarily marketed towards tourists. Funnily enough the the only major recreational diving accident in Sri Lanka involved a certified diver.

People with free diving experience generally become better divers as they are already comfortable in the water and have some basic skills. Wont bother discussing the incompetence of most OW students these days but intensive training would not be the word to describe what they might have completed.

Again, not knowing the people involved I would say get certified. But I dont see diving without certification under proper guidance as something that will kill you as pointed out by some here. A DM leading 4-5 Discover Scuba students woul be more dangerous in my opinion.

All depends on the individual concerned, the dive leader, and the dive site/conditions involved.

Just my two cents worth.

Cheers!

 

[Divor]

How original!

 

[iztok]

A DM leading 4-5 Discover Scuba students woul be more dangerous in my opinion.

PADI DSD Leader (DiveMaster) ratio is 4:1 in pool and 2:1 on additional OW dive (after initial open water dive with an instructor).

 

[Nishan]

Thanks for the update on the DM:student ratio.

Would add that even 4-5 certified divers might be too much for a DM given the skill levels of some divers. I would worry about what might happen if they separate from the group in less than ideal conditions.

Sorry about the earlier rant. Just that I think doing something outside the norm doesnt necessarily mean its dangerous. As I said, just my two cents worth of opinion. Nothing else

 

[boulderjohn]

There seems to have been a communciation problem, so I thought I would bold some points to make it more clear.

PADI DSD Leader (DiveMaster) ratio is 4:1 in pool and 2:1 on additional OW dive (after initial open water dive with an instructor).

Would add that even 4-5 certified divers might be too much for a DM given the skill levels of some divers. I would worry about what might happen if they separate from the group in less than ideal conditions.
)

Key points:

The 4:1 ration is only for a pool. If divers are separated in less than ideal conditions, it does not qualify as a pool.

An instructor--not a DM--must lead the initial OW dive.

A DM is limited to a 2:1 ratio on subsequent dives.

 

[Gambitt]

Re: my 15 ft. comment

One thing that has been missed in the discussion, is the Duration of the Ascent. You can say that 1.5 atm could possibly cause an expansion injury under the right circumstances, and I won't argue the point, But!...

If a diver is kicking off the bottom, and ascending to the surface at maximum velocity, from 15 ft. then the total ascent time is about 2 seconds, and the pressure is released as the swimmer hits the surface. It's not as though they have the 30-40 second ascent time from say 100 ft.

Revving a car engine to 6000 rpm, and letting it back down; is a Whole lot different than traveling a distance at that rate.

It would take a lot longer than 2 seconds (IMO) for your body to sustain a life-threatening injury, with this slight change in volume. Your lungs are "elastic" for a reason, and a slight over-pressure of limited duration is not the same as a sustained stress on the tissues.

Do I reccomend it as a common practice? Certainly not! But for a one-off bail-out, I just can't see the "instant-death" that so many others are prognosticating.

(Any Dr.'s out there care to reply?)

 

[lmurtha1]

I never realized that so many instructors are poor in their training ability. Is it that they are just ineffective in demonstrating the proper ways to dive, or are they just incompetent divers period?! It seems like a trend through this thread is that the certification process usually turns out to be more of a mess with sometimes poor instructors and a pool full of scared students that are not comfortable in the water:shocked2: I really hope that being in s. Florida, that their are some quality agencies out their with great instructors. I'm getting privately instructed down here with my wife, so that should take some of the stress out of it, ya think? Then again, the instructor could be crap also. Anyone know of a quality instructor in the Fort Lauderdale area that does private lessons?

 

[Thalassamania]

Re: my 15 ft. comment

One thing that has been missed in the discussion, is the Duration of the Ascent. You can say that 1.5 atm could possibly cause an expansion injury under the right circumstances, and I won't argue the point, But!...

If a diver is kicking off the bottom, and ascending to the surface at maximum velocity, from 15 ft. then the total ascent time is about 2 seconds, and the pressure is released as the swimmer hits the surface. It's not as though they have the 30-40 second ascent time from say 100 ft.

Revving a car engine to 6000 rpm, and letting it back down; is a Whole lot different than traveling a distance at that rate.

It would take a lot longer than 2 seconds (IMO) for your body to sustain a life-threatening injury, with this slight change in volume. Your lungs are "elastic" for a reason, and a slight over-pressure of limited duration is not the same as a sustained stress on the tissues.

Do I reccomend it as a common practice? Certainly not! But for a one-off bail-out, I just can't see the "instant-death" that so many others are prognosticating.

(Any Dr.'s out there care to reply?)

The duration is irrelevant, in fact the shorter the duration the more severe the potential problem. A breath-holding ascent from as little as 4 feet, with a full lunbg of compressed air, with the glottis closed can result in an AGE.

 

[iztok]

It would take a lot longer than 2 seconds (IMO) for your body to sustain a life-threatening injury, with this slight change in volume. Your lungs are "elastic" for a reason, and a slight over-pressure of limited duration is not the same as a sustained stress on the tissues.

Slight over-pressure? 50% is not slight. Just saying! It only takes a fraction of a second for a balloon to burst and lungs are pretty much very similar. Balloon is also elastic but full balloon can't take 50% increase even for a short time.

 

[Lead_carrier]

Re: my 15 ft. comment

One thing that has been missed in the discussion, is the Duration of the Ascent. You can say that 1.5 atm could possibly cause an expansion injury under the right circumstances, and I won't argue the point, But!...

If a diver is kicking off the bottom, and ascending to the surface at maximum velocity, from 15 ft. then the total ascent time is about 2 seconds, and the pressure is released as the swimmer hits the surface. It's not as though they have the 30-40 second ascent time from say 100 ft.


(Any Dr.'s out there care to reply?)

I would strongly suggest that you re-read your OW manual. It isn't the speed, its the pressure. The only difference that speed makes is whether you injure yourself slowly or quickly.