Diving Without certification...

[Aquatic Eagle]

I never realized that so many instructors are poor in their training ability. Is it that they are just ineffective in demonstrating the proper ways to dive, or are they just incompetent divers period?! It seems like a trend through this thread is that the certification process usually turns out to be more of a mess with sometimes poor instructors and a pool full of scared students that are not comfortable in the water:shocked2: I really hope that being in s. Florida, that their are some quality agencies out their with great instructors. I'm getting privately instructed down here with my wife, so that should take some of the stress out of it, ya think? Then again, the instructor could be crap also. Anyone know of a quality instructor in the Fort Lauderdale area that does private lessons?

There are some bad instructors out there but I would say that they are in the minority. That doesn't mean that the rest are excellent. You have to qualify your instructor a little. Bad instructors are bad because they aren't meant for teaching, are careless, don't know the material as well as they should or maybe they just had the minimum amount of experience to become an instructor. I'm not saying that those of the latter variety are always bad but instructor factories that take students from 0-instructor in 3 months aren't the best way to go. I went that route (was OW certified) and became an instructor with very little diving experience outside of the program that certified me. Since then I have gained a lot of experience in teaching, diving and leading and I feel that I am a pretty good instructor now. What's important is that I love teaching, I love diving and I love sharing the passion with others. That's the kind of instructor you need to look for. Find an instructor that gets excited just talking about certifying you.

 

[boulderjohn]

It would take a lot longer than 2 seconds (IMO) for your body to sustain a life-threatening injury, with this slight change in volume. Your lungs are "elastic" for a reason, and a slight over-pressure of limited duration is not the same as a sustained stress on the tissues.

When I did my instructor training, we were required to see a video which re-enacted the true story of a student who panicked during pool training and swam to the surface of the pool, about 10 feet above where she started, while holding her breath. She died on the surface.

In Alabama last year a student died while holding his breath from the bottom of the pool during an instructional exercise.

 

[Gambitt]

Sorry BJ, but I know of a guy who died because he sat down in his lawnchair on his front deck....

Of course the "out-of-control car" had something to do with it.

My point was merely to examine the "relative dangers" of a 15 ft. dive, versus those of say a "Discover Scuba" dive to 40 ft with very little more training.

Leaving your house in the morning is "dangerous" but considering the number of accidents that occur "in the home" maybe you'd better not go back there either!

 

[Thalassamania]

You're "point" is way off base.

If you ever want to meet your SB challenge and earn your DM you will have to learn a bit more about diving and you will have to stop spreading dangerous and false information, especially once people with far more knowledge than you have have corrected you, first nicely and then emphatically. Take the not so subtle hint.

 

[boulderjohn]

Sorry BJ, but I know of a guy who died because he sat down in his lawnchair on his front deck....

Of course the "out-of-control car" had something to do with it.

My point was merely to examine the "relative dangers" of a 15 ft. dive, versus those of say a "Discover Scuba" dive to 40 ft with very little more training.

Leaving your house in the morning is "dangerous" but considering the number of accidents that occur "in the home" maybe you'd better not go back there either!

Is that how your thought processes work in general?

The guy did not die because he sat in a lawn chair; he died because a car hit him. That is an exterior cause not related to the act of sitting in a chair.

You said:

It would take a lot longer than 2 seconds (IMO) for your body to sustain a life-threatening injury, with this slight change in volume. Your lungs are "elastic" for a reason, and a slight over-pressure of limited duration is not the same as a sustained stress on the tissues.

This means you said the person cannot die from breath hold ascents at shallow depths. I showed that they can. No exterior cause needed. The act itself caused the death.

If you say something is not possible, it is entirely relevant to show that it is possible. I think it is very dangerous for you to be telling potential divers that they can safely do something which can in fact kill them, and I hope any new divers reading this thread can see the difference.

 

[iztok]

Sorry BJ, but I know of a guy who died because he sat down in his lawnchair on his front deck....

Of course the "out-of-control car" had something to do with it.

My point was merely to examine the "relative dangers" of a 15 ft. dive, versus those of say a "Discover Scuba" dive to 40 ft with very little more training.

Leaving your house in the morning is "dangerous" but considering the number of accidents that occur "in the home" maybe you'd better not go back there either!

I don't get it. Many instructors and others have told you that 15ft depth to the surface is very significant pressure change (causes 50% increase in gas volume). The same principle that makes it really hard (takes quite some practice) to keep a safety stop at 15ft as even small change in depth relates to rather big increase in volume (and water displacement in case of BCD).

Instead of admitting you were wrong you keep on trying to make a point of some sort. You are trying to defend your writing at potential cost of someone else' life.

I am just DMC but you had several instructors and experienced divers pitching in as well. None really dismissed the 15ft depth (as far as the bolting to surface withholding breath) as trivial. It is a serious and potentially lethal issue.

 

[Nishan]

There seems to have been a communciation problem, so I thought I would bold some points to make it more clear.





Key points:

The 4:1 ration is only for a pool. If divers are separated in less than ideal conditions, it does not qualify as a pool.

An instructor--not a DM--must lead the initial OW dive.

A DM is limited to a 2:1 ratio on subsequent dives.

Thanks for the clarification on the DSD. I stand corrected on the supervision requirements.

I know this is straying a bit away from the OP's question but my last statement about the DM scenario was for OW certified divers on guided dives. I have seen enough scenarios where the DM virtually has to hold a divers hand so having more than one diver under his/her supervision could be dangerous.

I will stop here and let the post continue answering the original question. For the record I will add my vote to those who say get certified first but I think the OP agreed to that already!

 

[tomfcrist]

TO the OP.....Should people just throw gear on and go diving with no training? NO. However, in an industry thats not federally regulated(ie: there is no SCUBA "Liscence"), there is nothing to reall stop a competent diver from teaching his buddys/kids/whatever how to dive. If something bad happens while in the act of doing so, take into account that this is a litigous society and the unqualified trainer in question will probably be sued.

I am an Instructor, and I was taght how to dive when i was very young by my grandfather. He wasnt an instryctor, but was probably more anal about safety than most instructors i know. I dove for 15 years and had over 900 dives under my belt berofre i got "Certified". When all is said and done it comes down to the comfort level of the trainee, and the competancy of the trainer. In the case of the guy that said" its only 15 feet" as if there was nothing to worry about, he is not competent.
Hope this helps.

 

[vshearer]

When I was 16 some friends of my older brother who dove for the Fire Department were going out on Clark Hill (now Thurmond lake) to dive. Asked me if I wanted to go, said they would teach me how to use the equipment. I was a good swimmer so I went.

I am still alive and that is when I was first hooked.

 

[iztok]

Rule of the thumb for me is "would I let my child do this". We've all done some more or less stupid things in our lives and survived (obviously as we post this). But would you let your child do it?