Do you actually see people diving with pony bottles?

[MaxBottomtime]

Several posters have mentioned the possibility of regulator freeflows due to cold water. What keeps your pony reg from the same fate? Why not just use a sealed reg when diving in cold water?

 

[2airishuman]

I understand completely, and I'm not sure if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you. I can't speak for others, so all I can say is that if I were to dive in the UK, I would use a twinset, not a pony, for the peace of mind. To me, those conditions are nothing to fool around with. A pony MIGHT work fine, IF one manages to tick all the boxes effectively: configuration, training, practice, etc. However, a twinset and a little training in dealing with failures is the more standard tool to deal with those conditions. That kind of training is so standardized and so widely available, why resort to a pony except to avoid the inconvenience/cost of a twinset? Sometimes, the kind of dives one wants to do just call for a little more inconvenience and cost.

You may be "more likely to see a pony" than a twinset, but should it be that way? Are some people simply taking the easier, less expensive route when the obvious tool for those conditions is the tried-and-true twinset configuration? You say that you are seeing more divers on twinsets and fewer divers on ponies. I would interpret that as meaning more divers are seeing the light and striving to dive these conditions with the better tool for the job, despite the cost and inconvenience.

Twinsets are not suitable for all divers, or for all dives. They require greater skill to use in a way that actually achieves the desired redunancy, they cost more, they weigh substantially more, they require more extensive equipment changes, there are dives where boat policy allows use of a pony but not a twinset, they increase drag, they complicate dive logistics.

Several posters have mentioned the possibility of regulator freeflows due to cold water. What keeps your pony reg from the same fate? Why not just use a sealed reg when diving in cold water?

All my coldwater regs are sealed -- twinset regs, single regs, pony reg. Sealed regs are far from being a guarantee that a freeflow will not occur because of a freezeup. All they do is improve the odds.

A freeflow caused by ice takes time to develop, generally, several minutes or more. That allows enough time for a safe ascent on a pony.

Some coldwater divers will shut off the cylinder valve on a freeflowing regulator, and turn it back on again after a minute or two to see if the regulator has thawed. If the reg has thawed, they will switch back to it and continue the dive.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Twinsets are not suitable for all divers, or for all dives. They require greater skill to use in a way that actually achieves the desired redunancy, they cost more, they weigh substantially more, they require more extensive equipment changes, there are dives where boat policy allows use of a pony but not a twinset, they increase drag, they complicate dive logistics.

You got it. For really benign dives, I enjoy the freedom of using a single tank and relying on a buddy for the rest. For more advanced dives, well, that is why I have invested the money and time (learning the skills) and am willing to tolerate the other downsides you mention. If a dive boat offers what seems to me to be an advanced dive calling for redundancy or more gas than a single tank, but their policy doesn't allow a twinset (or sidemount), I'm not comfortable doing that dive. But that's just me. If one is confident they have the pony thing all figured out to address the issues, then that's great for them.

 

[Gareth J]

Several posters have mentioned the possibility of regulator freeflows due to cold water. What keeps your pony reg from the same fate? Why not just use a sealed reg when diving in cold water?

As 2airishuman mentioned, by having a pony (or a twinset), you reduce the consequence of a single regulator free flowing, and at least give yourself a short term respite, by having immediately available gas in the pony/twinset. If you have a free flow the only way is up!
In simple terms, other than the volume of available gas, you get the advantages of a twinset.

A point of caution. You need as good a quality, if not better, of regulator on your pony as you do on your primary cylinder. It also needs to be well maintained.

One other point to remember. Free flow risk increases as gas flow through the first stage increases. i.e. heavy breathing, purging etc. AND if two people are breathing off the same first stage, in cold water, the risk of a free flow increases significantly (all of us diving in cold water are very aware of this and the other contributing issues - or should be).
A twinset, Y valve or Pony all have the distinct advantage that there is an individual first stage for each second stage!

Gareth

 

[Gareth J]

Isn't that why you have cheap flights to the Red Sea and Thailand?

Lorenzoid
I though for you in North America, you fall of the edge of the world if you go past the Canadian or Mexican border - other than a special dispensation for the Caribbean.

(Sorry for the dig - it is in jest).

Gareth

 

[markmud]

This is what the buddy system will look like when you have a problem.

View attachment 431708

Hi Cneal,

Your picture...I know that picture in real life.
Yeah, I buddy dive and travel everywhere with at least a small pony. I don't want to hold my breath while catching-up to my buddy if I have another problem with a primary breathing system. I use a larger pony for solo diving.

+1 on your post...really!
markm

 

[Ayisha]

Several posters have mentioned the possibility of regulator freeflows due to cold water. What keeps your pony reg from the same fate? Why not just use a sealed reg when diving in cold water?

Environmentally sealed regs are what is primarily in use here, and they do sometimes freeflow, some brands/models more than others, and depending on how well they are tuned and maintained. Regs that are easier to breathe are also easier to freeflow.

In the event of a freeflow, a full tank can empty really fast, as I gave real life examples of many posts back. If you're breathing off the freeflow, as most were originally taught, you will likely be out of gas long before you reach the surface. If you switch to your buddy's primary/alternate, the increased demand from two people in a potentially stressful situation at very cold temperatures and depth increases the possibility of the last remaining tank freeflowing to empty long before the surface. The slung pony is typically charged and left off during the dive until needed, so there is no demand on it until needed, and then only by one person.

People who dive cold water in cold climates tend to have been taught effective ways to avoid a freeflow such as:
- don't pre-breathe the reg and create moisture to ice up
- breathe slow and steady, don't overbreathe the reg
- use one or two short bursts on the inflator if needed and then wait - don't hold down the inflator
- avoid use of the purge button
- avoid inflating at the same time as inhaling - this also increases demand on the reg

This is a picture taken by someone on our boat when my buddy had a freeflow at 114 feet and ran out of gas quickly by the time we got to 88 feet. He went on my alternate and I went onto my pony to reduce the demand on my reg. Good thing, because I watched my nearly full main tank deplete a lot faster than expected with his heavy breathing. The captain said it was thundering on the hull with bubbles and he knew the tank emptied due to the impressive bubble mass. The outer ring is the size of the bubble mass, but by the time someone got a camera, this is what they captured:

 

[miikey87]

i dive with Frank the tank (al40) slung on my left side with the first stage primed and reg stowed. I deploy the reg at the start of each dive I have him with me and stow after a few breaths and carry on with the dive. After a few minutes I barely notice. Franks out when I’m out by myself or on deeper dives, I’d rather have a separate air source with me than cuddle up to someone on ascent if required.

 

[markmud]

Hello OP,
I have seen people with ponies occasionally. I vacation dive and used to dive SoCal and NorCal on a semi regular basis (I live in OH now...WTH!). Ponies in the CA portion of the Eastern Pacific were not unusual. Not ordinary, but not unusual. Most boats there are taxi-service oriented (very refreshing and I think safer). People take responsibility for themselves and it shows in their dive plan and gear selections (general statement--there are always anomalies).

I am treated to the normal guffaws when I show-up at the tropical "follow-the-leader" dive shop and ask for a fill-up for my pony. Gas-hog...OMG! Yeah, that's the expression. Then the DMs start pointing fingers at each other trying to make sure they don't end up baby sitting me.

It becomes fun when, after a few days of "first one in the water, and last one on the boat" and way more that 500 psi in my AL80, the guffaws die down.

My Costa Rica experience regarding this issue is just too rich to jot down.

Towards the end of the vacation, people are talking about redundancy, dive planning, and safety issues with me. It is fun to give my opinions and listen to their ideas (I always give them the obligatory disclaimer: "I am not a dive professional; therefore, you should consult your instructor.")

thanks,
markm

 

[SgtKashim]

I know we have multiple threads about ponies.

Just an informal little survey after a recent chat with friends and observing other divers out at the quarry.

Do you see people diving with pony bottles?

Where I've dived - the local quarry and Lake Michigan - I see a fair number of divers with them. One fellow I've seen several times lately had a small - 13cft, maybe - pony that had a very nice marbled red finish.

Folks I dove with yesterday: 2 had 40cft ponies. I had my 30cft. One was SM.

Seems like the serious cold(er) water divers I know of tend to have them if they're diving single tank BM and carry them habitually even if in warmer water.

The warm water, vacation only divers I know have never seen another diver with one.

As a cold water diver - I have a 13 I carry. Our club pres, who tends to be our dive master, also carries a... 19, I think? Beyond that, most of the club members don't actually carry a spare. But I've also only been on shallow or simple dives with them.