Does Leisure Pro ever sell fake stuff?

[Tigerman]

I do buy stuff from them, I just don't like the "detective work".

Terry

Seems to me like you like it a whole lot..

 

[tridacna]

"Bad Deal" is your term. If you like what you bought, that's all that counts. Personally I like to buy things from places that have a more stable supply chain.

Terry

So if you went into your LDS and they had a reg that regularly cost $500 for $100 as a closeout that would be OK. But buying it at LP makes it questionable because you can't figure out how they sourced it? You make no sense. Since when does "stable supply chain" enter into anything? Are you a Fortune 500 company? Need reassurance for long term supply? I guess that you don't buy at eBay or any other Internet store either. Your argument is bogus.

 

[Web Monkey]

So if you went into your LDS and they had a reg that regularly cost $500 for $100 as a closeout that would be OK. But buying it at LP makes it questionable because you can't figure out how they sourced it? You make no sense. Since when does "stable supply chain" enter into anything? Are you a Fortune 500 company? Need reassurance for long term supply? I guess that you don't buy at eBay or any other Internet store either. Your argument is bogus.

All products are priced at what the seller thinks the buyer will pay. If LP thinks the $500 reg is only worth $100, I would want to know why. It doesn't mean that I wouldn't buy it, only that I would want a little information on what's "wrong" with it.

And I'm completely amazed at how many shorts I've managed to twist by asking for a little sunshine. I'm not saying "Don't buy from LP!" or "LP kicks puppies and eats babies!." I'm saying that it would be nice if they were a little clearer about the origin and status of the products they sell, so consumers could make an informed decision.

I guess I'm just some sort of bizzare consumer that likes to base my purchases on actual information.

Terry

 

[ReefHound]

All products are priced at what the seller thinks the buyer will pay. If LP thinks the $500 reg is only worth $100, I would want to know why. It doesn't mean that I wouldn't buy it, only that I would want a little information on what's "wrong" with it.

And I'm completely amazed at how many shorts I've managed to twist by asking for a little sunshine. I'm not saying "Don't buy from LP!" or "LP kicks puppies and eats babies!." I'm saying that it would be nice if they were a little clearer about the origin and status of the products they sell, so consumers could make an informed decision.

I guess I'm just some sort of bizzare consumer that likes to base my purchases on actual information.

Terry

You're twisting so many shorts because you're applying double standards and making so many statements that are simply untrue or are assumptions based on your personal situation.

LP is upfront and honest on their site. If they say "full warranty" and you hear "full manufacturer warranty valid at any authorized dealer", that's your problem. They clearly spell out the terms and conditions in their pages on warranty and service. If you have any specific questions unanswered, pick up the phone and call.

That's a lot more honesty and disclosure than your typical LDS offers. How many LDS post their terms and conditions online in detail? How many tell you openly that if you buy your reg at LP then they won't service it, or will treat you like a leper from thereon? Who's your LDS? Let's see how they compare.

You're acting like thousands of buyers are being misled and deluded. People know what they are getting on LP. They simply choose the lower price over the LDS "service". I'll bet few new divers get through OW without hearing an anti-LP spiel at least once.

 

[garyfotodiver]

Amen to what ReefHound said.

Another sales proverb, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!"

 

[coach_izzy]

Working in New York, I have my choice of two LDS. One is across the street from me, or I could walk down 3 blocks and go to Leisure Pro. My choice is to walk the three blocks and go to the so called "Mortar and Brick" Leisure Pro store. I guess that qualifies them as a LDS.

As to the "You get genuine parts" for your reg from your authorized dealer, well, I will have to bust your bubble! Having overhaulded regs for a scuba shop, I know well what goes on. If you think about it, a size 12 o-ring will be the same size, regardless of where it comes from. You could overhaul the first stage of pretty much ANY regulator without even using "original" manufacturer parts and still have it work flawlessly.

Now when it comes to the second stage, the "parts kit" (sounds important does it not?) consists of several size o-rings, washers, valves, seats, and plastic ties for the mouth piece. All that stuff cannot be worth anymore than $1.50, yet people get gouged for it, and sometimes not all the parts are used. I remember seeing a tech flipping the seat of a second stage. The tech did not even open the parts kit, and only used generic parts, yet charged the costumer for the kit.

That is why I service my own gear. I only trust me with getting the job done and doing it well. Oh, and I stopped servicing regs in shops well over a year ago. I liked being thorough and that took time, but they kept persuading me to move faster.

If you go on vacation to a popular dive destination and your regulator free flows, you could have it serviced in the spot, even if the shop does not carry your brand, why? Because most parts are generic, not exclusive.

I still fail to see how the "only an authorized dealer can get you genuine parts" phrase is being used to argue the point. It is not like there's a huge black market for counterfeit high pressure seats, you know?

Oh yeah, I also support another dive shop near my house. Is about 16 miles from me, I bought my tanks there, and they give me free air fills and cheap nitrox. There's another diveshop only 6 miles from my house, but the crook charges nearly 8 bucks more PER fill, and never shows any appreciation for his costumers. He has not seen any of my business in a long time.

It is good to have options like Leisure Pro, Scuba Toys, and Philll around. Behold the future of business.

Mis dos centavos

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

All products are priced at what the seller thinks the buyer will pay. If LP thinks the $500 reg is only worth $100, I would want to know why. It doesn't mean that I wouldn't buy it, only that I would want a little information on what's "wrong" with it.

And I'm completely amazed at how many shorts I've managed to twist by asking for a little sunshine. I'm not saying "Don't buy from LP!" or "LP kicks puppies and eats babies!." I'm saying that it would be nice if they were a little clearer about the origin and status of the products they sell, so consumers could make an informed decision.

I guess I'm just some sort of bizzare consumer that likes to base my purchases on actual information.

Terry

Wow now you are saying they are selling stuff that has something "wrong" with it.

Funny all the stuff I buy from them works just fine. Haven't died using a single piece of gear from LP, Scuba Toys, Golem, Dive Sports or Deep Sea Supply.

LP sells the same high quality or low quality based on the specific brand you would find at your LDS. If you have a problem they fix it and don't give you a hard time. All terms and conditions are spelled out on the web site.

The reason I purchase online as opposed to the LDS is that LP, Scuba Toys, Golem, Deep Sea Supply Dive Sports give me great products at great prices with excellent service and I don't have to listen to a bunch of arguements or sales pitches that are full of holes.

They have gear.
I have money.
I want gear.
They want money.
They make it easy for me to get said gear.
I make it easy for them to get my money.
I am happy.
The online guys are happy.
The LDS is unhappy
because the LDS did not get to treat me crappy.

Web the more you whine, the more you make the case that it is best for people to give the online guys a call.

 

[Web Monkey]

Wow now you are saying they are selling stuff that has something "wrong" with it.

You seem to be "English" impaired. I said "I would want to know why."

And yes, if they're selling a $500 reg for $100, there is a reason no sane retailer would do this without a very good reason.

Undercutting your competition is fine. Doing it by a significant amount gets you a good reputation for being cheap. Doing it by a huge amount is just dumb, and they're not dumb.

I would also like to congratulate you on being the very first person to ever make it on to my "Ignore" list.

Terry

 

[Web Monkey]

LP is upfront and honest on their site. If they say "full warranty" and you hear "full manufacturer warranty valid at any authorized dealer", that's your problem.

That is what it means in the rest of the world. What is the last thing you bought that was only warranted by the dealer?

Also, they do say "Full Warranty" with no time limit specified on their site, however this is either a mistake, or you all have been paying for unnecessary service and shipping.

According to the Federal Trade Comission, with a Full Warranty:

1. You do not limit the duration of implied warranties.
2. You provide warranty service to anyone who owns the product during the warranty period; that is, you do not limit coverage to first purchasers.
3. You provide warranty service free of charge, including such costs as returning the product or removing and reinstalling the product when necessary.
4. You provide, at the consumer's choice, either a replacement or a full refund if, after a reasonable number of tries, you are unable to repair the product.
5. You do not require consumers to perform any duty as a precondition for receiving service, except notifying you that service is needed, unless you can demonstrate that the duty is reasonable.

This includes free parts and labor and two way shipping forever, and is undeniably a great deal, and much better than any manufacturer gives. If it's true than everybody in the world should only buy from Leisurepro. they would be insane not to.

If it isn't true they should say so.

Terry

 

[Charlie99]

As usual Phil Ellis has it spot on. Facts are, most folks -well all but but CSR-know that LP purchases direct from almost all manufacturers, some just choose to lie to their dealers and say they are not selling to LP, in the meantime, in many cases, LP is their largest account.

I'll bet that the manufacturers aren't lying. OTOH, I'll bet that there is an unlisted manufacturer's rep or distributor that just happens to have the same owners as does LP, and whose only customer is LP.

I've done the same thing with magazines --- they wanted to be able to say to other advertisers that the maximum discount to any customer was xx% off of rate card. What the magazine failed to mention is that in addition to discounted ad rates, that they also gave pretty good sized rebates to some advertising agencies whose only assets were a phone in a cubicle at the company paying for the ads.

Captive distributors, captive ad agencies, and in the past - captive travel agents -- are all ways to fudge a bit while attempting to avoid angering other customers.