Does my rig default me as a "Bad Buddy"?

[Rich Keller]

My current setup is a Scubapro Seahawk w/Air2. My primary 2nd is on a very short hose. My GF was recently certified and I'm realizing that my short lp hose is not ideal for buddy breathing.

So, how should I fix this.

1. longer lp hose to my secondary with swivel? How long?

2. Add an octo to my setup in additon to my air2?

3. Leave it alone and get her a pony or spare air?

I like my setup alot, my gear does not produce a large profle and the only dangly is my large flashlight that is easily secured when I'm not using it.

Here's a pic.

Has anyone ever seen a diver with air2 and an octo?View attachment 141298

I prefer as small a profile as possible also but you should look into a longer hose for you second stage. First reason is obviously to make it easier to give it to the other diver. Second reason is you do not want to put your buoyancy control in the hands of a diver who may be somewhat panicked by giving them your Air 2.

 

[flots am]

I prefer as small a profile as possible also but you should look into a longer hose for you second stage. First reason is obviously to make it easier to give it to the other diver. Second reason is you do not want to put your buoyancy control in the hands of a diver who may be somewhat panicked by giving them your Air 2.

You absolutely do not want to ever give your Air-2/SS-1/whatever to the out of air diver.

The hose is too short, but that's just annoying. It also makes the controls difficult to manipulate, but that's not it either.

The biggest reason is that many BCs have a pull dump cable inside the corrugated hose and pulling on the Air-2 will dump all the air from your BC.

flots.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I am not a stupid woman; nobody makes it through medical school and residency if they are stupid.

I have dived WAY beyond my limits when following a guide.

I almost got into the water in Australia with my tank turned off.

I have begun a dive with a half-full tank, because I failed three pre-dive checks.

I have done a technical dive without a review of the dive plan and an equipment check. I've actually done it more than once; every time it was because I was diving with someone I respected enough that I didn't want to press them to do something they clearly didn't think was necessary.

I have done stupid things. They were stupid. The word is appropriate, and I would not be offended by anyone applying that word to what I did. I am not a stupid person, but I have made stupid mistakes, and we all do. Labelling them as what they are is not judgmental of the person.

I hate to brag, but my list of stupid human tricks is far more extensive than that.... The important thing for the diver to do is to be constantly thinking if what they are doing is "stupid". Many of us, diverge from the normal "guidelines" of diving, so it is important to be humble and say..."is this stupid?".. Or "am I being a dumb ass"?

Smart people can get excited, distracted, angry, sea sick, hypothermic, excessively determined to complete a dive or an objective, narcosis can further inhibit clear thinking, even fear (of sharks, drowning, equipment failure), peer pressure, excessive familiarity with the dive or diving ... can all conspire to make seemingly "smart" people act "stupid".

I have no problem calling people's actions stupid..and what did Forest's mother say? "stupid is as stupid does"

 

[Tigerman]

"Watch your SPG/computer, stay close to your buddy, and keep your skills sharp and you won't have to worry about what people say about you when you have a close call or worse."

Equipment failures that cause an air delivery failure are actually quite rare, however the bold part above will take care of it nicely.

flots.

Yes, failures like that is rare, but they HAPPEN and when they do, YOU are the one who call the one it happen to an IDIOT...
Ive seen it and dealt with it and I have no reason to call my buddy an idiot for it to happen to them..

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Hey dumpsterdiver,

You got me. I did not edit my post and got caught using an adverb(?) where I should not have. I got hyperbolic when I should have been more measured. It was a stupid action on my part.

This thread has gone down several rabbit trails (which is common with threads that are 7 pages long), and the context of what we were discussing is whether or not it is a stupid act for someone to run out of gas. It clearly is.

Another person posting on this thread got jumped because he did not contextualize his post well. I knew what he meant and, essentially, asked him to clarify. He did.

Back to your point: Will you please list in chronological order, all actions taken by a SCUBA diver that are more important than having breathing gas?

Scenarios:

Ooops! I accidently overstayed at depth and now I have to perform staged decompression. Oh yeah, I have enough gas to get me to my deco bar that has a surface supplied second stage secured to it. Also, my pony rig is full. No problem.

Ooops! I got caught in a fishing net. OK. Don't panick...don't turn and flail...get my scissors out and start cutting. Well that's done...sure glad I used the rule of thirds to plan this dive, because I still have enough gas to do a safe ascent!

I am still trying to come up with a scenario that is more important than air.

I am not an expert diver. Please help me!

Oh wait a minute...I don't need air because my SOB buddy will be right there to offer her octo even though she is in staged decompression mode and needs all of her own air. PADI was right, I can rely on my buddy for air when I get stupid!

Air...We don't need no stink'n air!

As you can tell, I am still stuck on this breathing thing...I LIKE IT!

Help me out here!

markm

---------- Post added December 1st, 2012 at 08:44 PM ----------



Hey Tigerman,

Equipment failures are not a problem if you are trained to deal with them. Practicing contingency plans and having redundant gear is how I "try" to be a self-sufficient diver.

However, someday YOUR number will be called. Your luck will run out. God will punch your ticket. St. Peter will request your presence at the pearly gates.

When it is your turn to die, aint noth'n go'in to save ya! Please, try to postpone that day.

Redundancy on the ocean is not an option...it is a requirement if you want to avoid suicide.

I know the ocean very well.

markm

Don't know about chronological order.. but you didn't answer my question about where you came up with this idea that having air in the tank is the most important issue in all of diving....?

If you had good training, the instructor taught you exactly what to do when that happens. It is often not deadly and definitely not the worst thing that can happen to a diver when diving..

Still have no clue about what is more important? How about not holding your breath on ascent? Did they teach you that? That is much more of a problem than having nothing to breath. Definitely a more important "rule".

Can't possibly imagine an emergency that is more important or urgent than getting another breath or having no air in the tank? How about a shark shooting at you with his mouth open? How about a boat a second from crashing into your head or chopping you with turning props? How about a wave about to toss you into a jagged rock?

 

[DaleC]

While Forest Gump's momma did say that, it was in response to his query as to whether he was stupid. She never referred to him, or his actions, as such. The big question is: Where would Forest get such an idea?

I said I wouldn't but I couldn't resist

As for Markmud's question:

Having a cutting tool and knowing how to use it.

Chronologically speaking

1. Diver enters water
2. Diver has lot's of air; doubles, plus a pony, plus a spare air.
3. Diver swims into a thin filament fishing net and becomes entangled.
4. Diver forgot to bring a cutting tool, or has never practiced cutting with it, or panics and drops it.

The diver has all the air he can carry but without that tool and the skill to use it he/she is about to have a bad(der) day. Having enough air wasn't the divers problem, and more air won't solve it. In fact, his/her fixation on air supply may play a part in his/her demise.

To counter, one might say "where's their buddy?" in which case the primary concept that would save this diver would be: "Never dive alone" not "always have enough air".

Personally, I believe the number one rule in diving is Don't Panic but that is because I subscribe to the Douglas Adams school of dive instruction and intergalactic travel. As DD suggests, if one remembers not to do that, not having enough air does not need to be the end of the world. There are often other options.

 

[Chaiyz]

Wow, this thread has grown.

Well, I took all the advice I found, crunched the numbers and came up with my new rig.

I purchased an Atomic swivel and a 44" primary hose. I also dumped my single pressure guage and picked up a scubapro mini spg on a shorter hose with a lower profile.

I'm keeping my Air2, and I'm feeling pretty happy about my rig now. Easy to switch to my Air2 and donate my primary and we have both spent alot of time talking and mimicking our actions should we ever need to share air. Also want to mention that I purchased the spare-air specifically for the springs and reef diving which is mostly what I plan to do with her. She's OW, not advanced and not planning to go full cave or anything and knowing where we dive means really nothing deeper than 50ft where we live. If we go to a deeper site, I will rent or buy a 19cf pony.

Now, about my ancient flashlight.. lol. I actually use P7 LED flashlights but that day I had left in the wrong bag and was stuck with my trusty can light.

Again, thanks to everyone for the great advice and information. I can't say how much her reading this post and going over and over this stuff has made us a safer team.

Chaiyz

 

[Bob DBF]

Personally, I believe the number one rule in diving is Don't Panic but that is because I subscribe to the Douglas Adams school of dive instruction and intergalactic travel. As DD suggests, if one remembers not to do that, not having enough air does not need to be the end of the world. There are often other options.

I also subscribe to that school of thought, and the towel comes in handy as well.



Bob
---------------------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

 

[ttew]

Sure, OOA situation are most probably due to inattentive behavior, lack of experience, whatsoever,

But you cannot exclude
- equipment failure,
(e.g. SCUBAPRO - Product Support
Consumer Product Recalls - Consumer Product Safety,
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cressi/300962-cressi-regulator-issue-mc5-ellipse-black.html
GEAR RECALLS - PACIFICA DIVE UPDATES)
or

-psyco-physical conditions leading to an OOA situation, e.g never had a bad day or got narked at 60'?
Can you exclude getting the air blow and puke while underwater.

Basically **** happens, I do not know you but I like to be prepared when it happens.

The OP question was how to improve is rig, not how to get in an OOA situation.

NO! It's not wrong! The number of times a diver has become Out of Air because of "dumb" is so much more frequent than the contrived cases like exploding first stages (which I beleive has happened a total of maybe 10 times in all of human history and was due to improper service) that you can essentially ignore them as fringe cases with the same probability as Alien Abductions and Bigfoot attacks.

In nearly every single Open-Water Out-of-Air incident in recorded history, they have all been caused by people being dumb and not following training.

While I can appreciate that people who run out of air would find this embarrassing, this is the real world, not Lake Woebegone. All the children are not above average. "Accidentally running out of air" should rate at least the same level of embarrassment as "accidentally driving off a clean dry road into a ditch"


flots.