Does PADI frown on BP/W over "regular" bc?

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One more and I will leave it be. Just in case you think wings are new. I PERSONALLY dove this rig in the early 70s--like 1970. This is a Nemrod oral inflate horsecollar BC reverse mounted on a Voit SnugPack. While not many people did this a few of us did as we began to explore the entrances to the caves. I know for a fact the earliest wings were horsecollar BCs mounted just like this and this is one of them. It looks funny because it is on a 50, I did not feel like hauling out an 80.

DSCF0113.jpg


DSCF0112-1.jpg


Not only does this actually work very well with good rear bias for excellent horizontal trim but nobody cared in 1970 because nobody used a BC for open water anyways but sissies.

The very same Nemrod BC correctly worn last spring and note the horizontal trim and Nemrod Super A fins:

DSCF0192-1.jpg


Wings are not new, they just never really caught on--even today.


N
 
Its a reason, I've heard it before, and as you seem to agree, not a very good one.

Actually I would wait until I had taught several PADI OW classes, or at least assisted with them, to have an opinion about them for OW class. An instructor I respect admits that the BP/W is a much better system for diving, but is a real believer in having a class full of total newbies in quasi-life preservers, especially if he's the one responsible for their safety.
 
Actually I would wait until I had taught several PADI OW classes, or at least assisted with them, to have an opinion about them for OW class. An instructor I respect admits that the BP/W is a much better system for diving, but is a real believer in having a class full of total newbies in quasi-life preservers, especially if he's the one responsible for their safety.

No one in my class is going to make it to the open water part of the class if I feel like it would be unsafe for them to be in the water with a BP/W. In other words, if they need a life jacket, they're not going to complete my course, period. Plus, I try really hard to spend as little time as possible on the surface. Hopefully between the pool sessions, the classroom work and pre-dive talks on the day of the OW stuff they know enough about what to expect that I don't have to spend 30 minutes floating around telling them what's going on.
 
I think it is the same thing now that it was in 1978 when I began using "wing" type BCs on the then plastic plates called backpacks then. They (mostly PadI trained dive boats, shops and instructors) claimed that the wing is unsafe because it will not float you head up and back for a clear airway as many BCs are designed to do primary and the BC function is secondary. Most BC jackets and even the semi back inflate are really lifejackets FIRST. I was told wings (called back BCs then) were unsafe and that I could not use them on their trip-boat-whatever. They also did not allow any fixed weights such as what we call trim weights now. During that time all weight must be ditchable. Things have changed more to my way of thinking. Trim weights are common even in jacket BCs. The modern wing/BP is designed first and formost to perform as a bouyancy compensator and has no lifejacket function at all. I think this is the hang up especially with instructors who got their fins during the 80s and early 90s before the current "tech" and tech wannabee boom. There may be some rational for new divers who are poor swimmers to use the life jacket type BC just in case they have a problem. No wing I have ever had will reliably float me head up and back. The old horsecollar type would and the "Stabilizing Jacket" type will as will most of the current jacket types.

Wings go back into the 70s but did not go mainstream (if in fact they have now--outside of scubaboard you rarely see a wing/BP) because they were not good lifejackets for the non swimmers that PadI was trying to recruit:



The horsecollar ruled the roost because it was a "safety" design and the wing you see here is from the late 70s and early 80s:



Early 80s SeaTec wing, I bought it in about 84 after the SeaPro wing I bought in 78 punctured:



My wife in about 1984 in her then new life jacket BC and her in my Dacor in about 79:





The old SeaTec still works, two years ago, works with small twins as well:



Me in a modern wing/BP last spring:



Me sometime around 80 in my then well worn Dacor SeaChute horsecollar--then:



Now being restored to full fucntion, I am making a new bladder set myself:



Brand new horsecolar, the first wings actually evolved from people back mounting these, especially the type with zipper fronts:



Early weighted plate:



Some of my first gear circa late 60s:



My first "BC" circa 1965, imagine this back mounted and cut the oral tube off and put a larger hose--yep:



So, wings are not new, they are still not fully accepted because they are fairly poor lifejackets. This is compounded due to the FACT that most divers today and most instructors today cannot swim and thus subconciously desire a lifejacket--not a wing.

The wing is the thing--lol--the wing makes you horizontal, the jacket makes you vertical, good underwater, not so good on the surface for nonswimming students and instructors.

Of course, you don't need a BC if you are a water person:



Last summer, me in OxyMach V and Freedom Plate, her in old reliable--yes--she has a new BC but likes the old one better--what can I say. Yep, me, 42 years as an active diver, her, 28 years:



The wing is the thing.

N

You really put a lot of work into your posts... often. That's impressive and a good thing. I like it.

Bp/w not a lifejacket - - I saw a similar comment earlier in this thread and I have to wonder and ask... "If you were cought alone at sea with nothing in sight and knew you were 10 miles from shore in current taking you further out to sea would you praise that wing for being your lifejacket?
 
I was going to bed but let me answer that. There was a time I would have just swam it--lol--yes--I have done open ocean long distance swimming races--little old me, yep. However, 10 miles is a fer piece even for Nemrod so if I was in my Oxy Mach V and gave up on swimming (on my back as I always do) I would inflate the wing about 2/3, ditch my belt, and then take my sausage and inflate it and put it around my front and back under my arms, pop my mask on my forehead and hope for somebody to find me before I drifted off to Cuba. On the other hand, I always wanted to dive Cuba.

N
 
For people teaching/taking OW in a BP/W, how do you handle the two skills of removing and replacing the weight belt, and removing and replacing the BC? Whichever one I have on top, I find the other hard to get out of.
 
I was going to bed but let me answer that. There was a time I would have just swam it--lol--yes--I have done open ocean long distance swimming races--little old me, yep. However, 10 miles is a fer piece even for Nemrod so if I was in my Oxy Mach V and gave up on swimming (on my back as I always do) I would inflate the wing about 2/3, ditch my belt, and then take my sausage and inflate it and put it around my front and back under my arms, pop my mask on my forehead and hope for somebody to find me before I drifted off to Cuba. On the other hand, I always wanted to dive Cuba.

N

Other than the MOF I like it. I'd rather keep my mask over my eyes and protect them from the seaH2O.
 
And PADI still has no position on which type of buoyancy control device should or should not be used . . .


the K
 
Not sure where you're at, but if you're near the twin cities, you should have no problem doing OW with a bp/w at Scuba Center. Most of all the instructors there wear BP/W's and they sell quite a few of them.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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