Doing It Prejudiced

[rblackburn]

To paraphrase Groucho Marxist theory, I would not join any club that would have me as a member.

 

[Don Burke]

- post it and prove me wrong.

http://divermag.com/archives/mar99/divedoctor_mar99.html

http://www.scubadiving.com/article/0,7424,3-40-120-211,00.html

http://www.cambsac.com/newsletter/october1996/smoking.html

http://joh.med.uoeh-u.ac.jp/pdf/E39/E39_2_04.pdf

That is just a start. Do a Google search on "smoking and diving" and you will find more than you can read.

 

[rblackburn]

On another note... I have seen a GUE trained "DIR" diver smoking pot... I assume this is also against the "rules", or is it just cigarettes?

BTW, I am a vocel non-smoker. I don't think people should be allowed to smoke in public places, but I also think they have the right to smoke in their own homes, and in any place that allows smoking.

 

[Kim]

http://divermag.com/archives/mar99/divedoctor_mar99.html

http://www.scubadiving.com/article/0,7424,3-40-120-211,00.html

http://www.cambsac.com/newsletter/october1996/smoking.html

http://joh.med.uoeh-u.ac.jp/pdf/E39/E39_2_04.pdf

That is just a start. Do a Google search on "smoking and diving" and you will find more than you can read.

Quoted from the first link:
"One fascinating study I found looked at divers who had experienced neurological signs and symptoms within five minutes of surfacing from a normal dive. Of particular relevance were the divers who suffered pulmonary barotrauma (PBT) and/or arterial gas embolism (AGE). Of those divers, 50% had abnormalities on pulmonary function testing and 55% smoked! Less than 55% of divers smoke and therefore, smokers were far more likely to suffer PFT and/or AGE than nonsmokers. Finally, proof that divers who smoke are at increased risk of PBT and AGE, even during normal dives! "

So presumably 50% had no abnormalities who suffered PBT or AGE - and 45% didn't smoke. Sorry - I don't call that conclusive. The other links have far more to do with diving with conditions such as emphysema or other present lung conditions - which I don't have according to my yearly medical.
I am NOT trying to defend smoking as a healthy pastime - it's not. If my smoking habit caused me a lung condition such as outlined in your links - I'd probably have to stop diving - and I wouldn't blame that on anyone else. What I am complaining about here is the simple fact that I smoke - whatever my medical condition is - precludes me from even doing DIR-F. I've known people who died from lung cancer at 34 years old - as a non- smoker - and others that lived to more than 80 years old smoking every day - it's very hard to generalize. Thay's what GUE appears to do. Luckily there are other agencies (IANTD is my agency of choice because I know a very good IANTD instructor) who can teach you how to dive well. You are right - GUE can set their own rules. They also seem to be the only agency that proclaims to the world that they 'Do It Right' (suggesting that everyone else does it wrong).
On a final note - my beef is with GUE - not DIR divers. I appreciate that everyone who has put the effort into DIR-F and further has worked very hard to become a better diver - that's something I greatly respect. If someone wants to call me a 'stroke' or a 'smoke' or whatever - fine. I'll still practice to become a better diver.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

Kim, with all due respect, you really sound like a typical smoker in denial. I don't dispute your right to be angry with an organization but, there is overwhelming evidence that lends to believe that smoking and diving don't mix. I have a feeling that no amount of linked articles will convince you.

You are at higherj risk for AGE, You have higher levels of CO after smoking and at depth the higher partial pressures of CO are dangerous. Your O2 levels are being replaced by CO levels.

Smoking has many complex effects on the lungs. It paralyzes the ciliary hair cells lining the large airways for approxi mately one hour after one cigarette. In chronic smokers, the ciliary cells are destroyed. The function of these cells is to remove the mucous (and the dust/dirt that has been trapped in it) from the lungs (it ends up in the back of your throat and you swallow it). Without these cells, the only way to get the mucous out of the lungs is to cough it out (smoker's cough). If that were not bad enough, smoking actually increases the amount of mucous produced! This increased production of mucous combined with reduced removal of the mucous increases the likelihood that a mucous plug will block or partially block a large airway, trapping the gas beyond the blockage. This trapped gas greatly increases the diver's risk of pulmonary baro trauma and arterial gas embolism (often fatal), even on a normal ascent.

 

[Don Burke]

Quoted from the first link:
"One fascinating study I found looked at divers who had experienced neurological signs and symptoms within five minutes of surfacing from a normal dive. Of particular relevance were the divers who suffered pulmonary barotrauma (PBT) and/or arterial gas embolism (AGE). Of those divers, 50% had abnormalities on pulmonary function testing and 55% smoked! Less than 55% of divers smoke and therefore, smokers were far more likely to suffer PFT and/or AGE than nonsmokers. Finally, proof that divers who smoke are at increased risk of PBT and AGE, even during normal dives! "

I read that as saying that the 30% or so of the divers who smoke are having 55% of the PBT/AGE. Since the 30% is a guess, I would say that smokers have increased the susceptibilty by a factor of 1.5 to 2, maybe more as I suspect the 30% is high.

Let us see what you have to say.

So presumably 50% had no abnormalities who suffered PBT or AGE - and 45% didn't smoke. Sorry - I don't call that conclusive.

I suspect the dirt being tossed atop a coffin would not be conclusive to you.

The other links have far more to do with diving with conditions such as emphysema or other present lung conditions - which I don't have according to my yearly medical.

That puts you squarely in either the 50% or the 55% group.

I am NOT trying to defend smoking as a healthy pastime - it's not.

I know. You are trying to defend your right to kill yourself.

If my smoking habit caused me a lung condition such as outlined in your links - I'd probably have to stop diving - and I wouldn't blame that on anyone else.

You might want to read the things you quote. The smoking alone was shown to be a factor.

What I am complaining about here is the simple fact that I smoke - whatever my medical condition is - precludes me from even doing DIR-F.

The work with the odds, just like insurance companies.

I've known people who died from lung cancer at 34 years old - as a non- smoker - and others that lived to more than 80 years old smoking every day - it's very hard to generalize.

I find it very easy to generalize. Something less than 30% of the divers are having 55% of the PBT/AGE and they have one behavior in common.

Thay's what GUE appears to do. Luckily there are other agencies (IANTD is my agency of choice because I know a very good IANTD instructor) who can teach you how to dive well.

If this guy is so good, why did you even look into GUE?

You are right - GUE can set their own rules. They also seem to be the only agency that proclaims to the world that they 'Do It Right' (suggesting that everyone else does it wrong).

I do not read it that way. Then again, we have seen how you read things into plain text.

On a final note - my beef is with GUE - not DIR divers. I appreciate that everyone who has put the effort into DIR-F and further has worked very hard to become a better diver - that's something I greatly respect. If someone wants to call me a 'stroke' or a 'smoke' or whatever - fine. I'll still practice to become a better diver.

Good luck for as long as you last.

 

[DennisS]

My favorite DIR whine is the "buzz generating posts". Someone with 4 or 5 posts, what is DIR or some variation on the topic. They just happened by and have to know what DIRF is and have no idea on how to use search.

 

[Paul Evans]

Kim

I smoke, it's killing me, I know and understand that.

It puts me at greater risk underwater, I know and understand that.

If GUE want to set these standards, that is their choice, I can't say I blame them and I understand why.

DIR Don is right..................

 

[Mako Mark]

an old DIR diver walks into the doctors office and asks "Doc, How long will I live?"

the doc asks:

"do you smoke cuban cigars?"

"no" says the old diver

"do you eat ribeye steak" asks the doc

"no" says the old diver

"Are you promiscious and chase nubile young women'?" asks the doc

"certainly not" replies the old DIR diver.

"THEN WHY DO YOU CARE" shouts the doc.

 

[CAPT HOOK]

"GUE is supposed to be the pinnacle of American diving philosophy"

If you believe that someone has been blowing smoke up your skirt.

Just because dir advocates make lots of noise it doesn't mean they are at the top of anything. I think you will find that they are a VERY small minority of American divers.

My opinion and it's the only one that really matters to me.