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Donating the "primary" regulator

Discussion in 'SSI: Scuba Schools International' started by jwllorens, Dec 31, 2015.

  1. Arus

    Arus Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Treviso
    8
    0
    1
    ok, let's understand each other.
    me personally, i think the best solution is to provide what the OOAD is looking for, as fast as possible... and then keeping it at a decent distance for control.
    2 regs, long hose for the one we donate. good.
    the rescue course teached us that the rule is to help someone only if we are not putting ourself at danger, right?
    so, keeping this in mind, my colleague pointed out that makes no sense to donate our primary instead of having the long hose on the alternative and donate that one. for him is "if they pull your reg out, you failed. you should be able to push them away and provide the alternative... protect yourself first... i'm not taking out my own reg for your sake".
    i replied that we donate the primary because we cannot control everything...
    so, if we notice the situation and it's more or less under control... donating the primary is not such a big deal. you donate, switch to a well maintained alternative one and that's it.
    if we didn't notice and we got attacked suddenly having the reg pulled out, still we can switch to an alternative source that is right under our chin. and not being the ones on panic, is still quite a controlled situation.

    about legal consequences.. is not what we are discussing here. is not even possible to discuss it due to the different laws in the world. it's anyway a borderline situation.

    KenGordon can you explain better what you mean? what should we consider in you opinion?
     
  2. boulderjohn

    boulderjohn Technical Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Boulder, CO
    25,636
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    That assumes your are big enough and strong enough to hold off a panicked diver who is desperate for that regulator.

    The last thing I want to do in an OOA situation is get in a fight with a panicked, OOA diver. Maybe that's someone else's idea of a good time, but it isn't mine.
     
  3. mdb

    mdb ScubaBoard Sponsor ScubaBoard Sponsor

    5,739
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    Been in three OOA situations over 40+ years of diving.

    In every case the OOA diver went straight for my primary.

    I gave it up and went to my octo-using a Poseidon second stage-no wrong way to put in your mouth.

    Once the OOA diver had a few deep inhales it was time for a fairly controlled ascent.

    It all worked out and I learned from it.

    My first OOA experience was with a "buddy".

    We had practiced buddy breathing at the end of every dive for almost a year.

    When he ran out of air, chasing some abalone, all the practice went away.

    He just wanted air-NOW. He got it.

    I am no instructor, nor expert. It does seem that donating (giving up) the primary should be
    part of training.
     
    BenjaminF and kelemvor like this.
  4. KenGordon

    KenGordon Rebreather Pilot

    2,627
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    Your post is made from the point of view of a diver not out of gas giving gas to a diver who needs gas. You are putting yourself in the position of the saviour in the story. That is how these threads go. Nobody really pops up and says "if I am the OOG diver I do not want to have to wait for someone to notice my signal and donate. They could be a photographer, they could have the long hose under their drysuit inflate, they could think I might drown them, they might not have done an S drill in a year.... I just want gas, I don't want you involved. I am an adult, I can tell a stage from an octopus." Etc.

    Try thinking like a victim.
     
  5. Patoux01

    Patoux01 Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Geneva
    1,449
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    Since many stories tell us that the victim goes berzerk, it's hard thinking like them. I can not realistically say what I will do in that situation.
     
  6. Carl_F

    Carl_F Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Seneca, SC
    303
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    No. I'm saying they will swim to each other, share air and then ascend using a contact ascent.
     
  7. Carl_F

    Carl_F Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Seneca, SC
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    154
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    I agree ... a buddy that chooses to not share air in an OOA scenario could very well be liable in either civil or criminal proceedings if injury or death occurred as a result. However, a good faith attempt at air sharing that was then unsuccessful for some reason would likely mitigate that. I suspect for the most part it would have to be pretty obvious ... OOA buddy swimming toward the donor and then the donor turning and swimming away.
     
  8. tbeck3579

    tbeck3579 Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: None - Not Certified
    Location: CA
    128
    58
    28
    It is supposed to be taught from the beginning. I was concerned about what I should be learning after completing the online PADI so I looked for information. This is what you should learn in your OW:

     
  9. Bob DBF

    Bob DBF Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: NorCal
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    Well if the OOG diver is some distance away on your long hose and decides to head for the surface in panic, you have absolutely no control of the situation any more. There is a calming effect on a diver close to panic being eye to eye with a calm in control diver, seen it work. The problem is that you assume it is your buddy that is OOA and well trained, when it is not your buddy, it can get way more exciting.


    Bob
     
  10. boulderjohn

    boulderjohn Technical Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Boulder, CO
    25,636
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    First of all, the long hose gives you options. You can do what you want--hang onto the diver while staring meaningfully into his or her eyes or head out through a hole in the wreck single file.

    Second, we are not specifying the length of the long hose. In recreational diving, I prefer to use the same 7 foot hose I use in tech diving because I am frequently in confined spaces within a wreck. Some people prefer 5-foot hoses. Others use 40" hoses that route under the right arm and have a swivel connection at the regulator.
     

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