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Dream BCD With Superiour Weight System. Is it out there?

Discussion in 'Buoyancy Compensators (BC's) and Weight Systems' started by BrokenSailor, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. Jim Lapenta

    Jim Lapenta Dive Shop

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Canonsburg, Pa
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    Why the heck would you put an AIR II on a kids BC? Is he going to be really properly trained in it's use? I would never put my son in a BC with an integrated inflator. I began with a weight integrated BC and went back to belt for all my diving. It's cheap, easy to use, and easy to set up and change. Other than the bolt on weight plates I have for two of my BPW set ups I use a weight belt exclusively. Or I have weight pouches on the cam bands of the Zeagle Express Tech I have. I can drop a weight in each of them to basically give me the same distribution as a plate and wing.

    I would put him and you in an Express Tech with a weight belt set up like this one: Zeagle Express Tech Buoyancy Compensator Review
    and get him trained in it. it will last him years and grow with him and not set you back a lot. And put him in a reg with a std octo or long hose and bungee back up.
     
  2. BrokenSailor

    BrokenSailor Angel Fish

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Where ever they send me
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    And what is sidemount?

    ---------- Post added June 25th, 2013 at 04:14 PM ----------

    The Air II was just on the BC... it is gently used as I said. It can come off.
    His reg set up is going to be a standard octo with an oceanic plus computer. I do not want him on a integrated BC. I am 100% in line with your thinking Jim...

    So then the question is: Can I take the Air II off? or do I need to buy the Zeagle without it. There is one with, one without. $40 difference in price. What would you do?
     
  3. Jim Lapenta

    Jim Lapenta Dive Shop

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Canonsburg, Pa
    17,010
    8,933
    113
  4. BrokenSailor

    BrokenSailor Angel Fish

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Where ever they send me
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    Never mind on the sidemount....you mean like the razor... yeah no... not yet
     
  5. RJP

    RJP Scuba Media & Publications

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: New Jersey
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    You may have that backwards. I'm just saying.

    "Dodging a bullet" and "having experience" are two very different things.
     
    tracydr likes this.
  6. BrokenSailor

    BrokenSailor Angel Fish

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Where ever they send me
    48
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    I guess I could just stay stupid, use a weight belt and not ask. Probably wouldn't be dodging bullets if I did though...<sic>
    Experience tells me I should find a board and ask before I buy... <did you see that one?>

    ---------- Post added June 25th, 2013 at 07:55 PM ----------

    I was only concerned that if the BC now has all the weight in it. When I take it off am I going to float up? vs. having the weight on my belt. I have never dove with a BC where it also integrates the weight.
    I understand I can still drop the weight.
    But what happens if I take it off and I am only in a skin now?
    Just figured I would ask before I spent $1000.
    I would like to be able to take off my rig and still stay sitting on the bottom.
    I guess I didn't make that clear. Sorry.
     
  7. supergaijin

    supergaijin Dive Shop

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    The answers to your questions are above, but to re-cap...

    If wearing a positively buoyant wetsuit, you'll need weight attached to your body to balance this. How much weight will change depending on the bupyancy characteristics of the wetsuit/skin/drysuit. The remainder can go in the rig.

    IMO if you're wanting to go get this gear because you're worried about another cave-in... you should learn more so that you can start worrying about a whole bunch more.

    As mentioned above: An experience does not make one experienced. Ignorance is still riding shot-gun with you and will continue to do so until you get the appropriate training. 'All the gear, but no idea' is a fairly common saying in the diving world.
     
    tracydr likes this.
  8. eelnoraa

    eelnoraa DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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    When you are weighted properly, you + your rig together are neutral with empty tank. Now, if you weight yourself perfectly neutral, you rig will be also neutral with empty tank. Perfect right? It can be easily done with thin wetsuit where you may need only say up to 10lb of weight. Now think about if you are with a 25lb drysuit. You will need to carry 25lb of weight, this isn't easy at all. Even doable, it is not comfortable at all. So it highly depends on your exposure suit.

    ---------- Post added June 25th, 2013 at 09:34 PM ----------

    Please, stay out of overhead environment. You were lucky made it out last time.
     
  9. victorzamora

    victorzamora Solo Diver

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    Besides the compulsory: DON'T DIVE A CAVE WITHOUT CAVE TRAINING.
    and: SIDEMOUNT IS THE BEST FOR MAJOR RESTRICTIONS.
    and: AIR2 IS SOMETHING TO BE AVOIDED

    Also, if the above sounds like sarcasm: Let me clarify that there is NO sarcasm there. The reason for it being that way is that if you read across the boards, you'll see these messages echoed EVERYWHERE. I'm glad you asked the question, but I simply want to clarify that regardless of your comfort in the water and/or experience in OW.....there should be NO overhead diving without the proper training. Go through the Accidents & Incidents forum here and you'll see how many of them start with: "A very experienced OW diver ventured beyond OW limits into a cave" and then end with people expressing their condoloences for the families of the "very experienced OW divers".

    Now that all of that is out of the way, I have to say it's not hard to accomplish what you described. One thing you asked without anyone hear having answered yet is: Is there a way to do it without a weight belt?

    The answer to that is: Yes. You can purchase a weight harness. I don't recommend it. However, the weight harness is a belt with shoulder straps to keep the weights on you and spread the load around a little bit.
     
  10. BrokenSailor

    BrokenSailor Angel Fish

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Where ever they send me
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    Yeah guys, I get all that... get away from the experience part when it comes to actually diving. I started diving professionally in the military when I was 17. I am 50 now and a retired Maine Bio/ Chem Oceanographer for .gov. Enough said. I understand all the concepts of neutral buoyancy. Get off the cave dive training. You can go get trained to set explosives or diving in the Arctic. Been there Done That. I am 100% Disabled Vet now, but it had nothing to do with diving. Obviously I did not dodge every bullet<sic>. What is the point of filling out a profile...

    I am not taking anything as sarcasm, but somehow my question is not being understood... I just need help understanding the new equipment. I went in to a ScubaPro Shop and looked at all the new stuff that was out now and I have a lot of questions. I saw a BC with weights in their pockets that are clipped in. I looked at one that had everything integrated. The sales guy was useless and I wasn't buying Scuba Pro off the shelf anyway...

    Now back to my questions, which are all EQUIPMENT specific cause I am an old man, and I have been diving with my same old crap. I have never dove with a wing, or an integrated BC, an Air2, etc. I never had money for that stuff, and my employers didn't either, let alone it being available at the time... If it were up to me, my kid would be in a BC jacket with a weight belt and a standard octopus using the Navy dive tables. I am buying my equipment gently used from DiscountDivers.com so I am choosing from what he has available. I am trying to edumacate myself in the process... and buy some better stuff cause I do have the money now.

    So I want to make sure that if I put him in a wing with an integrated weight system. I can still put a belt on him to keep him from floating away if he needs to take his BC off underwater. That's it...

    So yeah, with that all out of the way,
    Exactly what I was trying to get at...

    I got that Zeagles are a good wing.
    So from what I gather, the weight that is on the BC that is dumped by the rip cord is part of the weight of the BC. They list two numbers...total weight, dumpable weight.
    I will either move one or the other to his belt with enough to keep him down if he had to take his bc/tank off, but enough is still going to be left so he can use his dump cord OR his weight belt or both. I shouldn't do it with a harness.

    So to summarize: even with the rip cord system in the Zeagle, I should have a weight belt if I want to... just in case...

    I assume, but will check that the non-dumpable weight would include as SS back plate if I choose to put one on for two tank dives, but I don't need something like that for my boy right away, but I might want it on the larger Zeagle Tech. Later on, I could add it because the Zeagle is modular and that is one of the reasons people like them?

    Does the Zeagle have other non-dumpable weight? like in the pockets, or is that just the total weight of the BC?
    I also gather, that paying an extra $40 for the Air2 that comes on the smaller BC is worth it.
    I can take it off, and I can use the Air2 later on down the road if I want. They retail for about $180??

    I further gather that the Zeagles that are available to me at a gently used price are good wing BCDs that give me the options I want with regards to weight, SS back boards, two tank mounting, and will grow with him, etc. They are modular and I can add and remove things around as I need.
    And while I am at it, I will upgrade my crappy old Cressi BC jacket that I have been using for the last 15 years... so I can have a nice wing to dive with that will be easy on my back that is broke in four places...and make my diving more enjoyable...
    That would be $350 and $550 respectively for the Zeagles, which I also gather is a good price.
    If anyone has had a problem with DiscountDivers.com let me know...

    I picked up a US Diver Octo setup for $140 and a Oceanic Pro Plus Computer for $300 which is very similar to the Oceanic I dive with.

    If there is anything that I didn't understand correctly about this equipment please pipe in. Thank you all very much.
     

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