Drinking & Diving

[MXGratefulDiver]

Claiming that one beer several hours before an easy dive increases your risk of DCS is like claiming that smiling while wearing braces on a cloudy day increases your risk of being struck by lightning ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Tortuga68]

Ahh, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. How silly of me--just the location everyone thinks of first when the topic of diving the Red Sea is mentioned on a message board located in the USA and primarily populated by divers from the Americas. While I can't say for certain, I'd venture that Sharm probably runs more dives in a week than Jeddah does in a year.

RE your "point," what is the point?

The location and population of this board is irrelevant, as is Sharm. I already explained what my point is, clearly you're not interested

Why don't you want to talk about BAC 3 hours after 1 beer any more?

 

[Bubbletrubble]

-deleted-

 

[Tortuga68]

You do know that the OP only cited LOB rules (first drink = last dive) as an example? Just like he quoted the 'rules' he was taught during OW training (don't drink & dive). The scenario he proposed (dive 3 hours after 1 beer) wasn't actually related to LOB at all. Yet here we are 20 pages later talking about LOBs

AFAIK no dive ops are breathalysing people - or checking their hydration, or anything else scientific - before diving, or following them around for 24 hours before the dive to see what they are doing. Sure someone might (and should) be stood down from a dive if they reek or are visibly affected by alcohol or other substances, but by and large for non-LOB diving it's up to the diver to ensure they are physiologically prepared for the dive in line with the waiver they signed

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

@NWGratefulDiver: Interesting simile.

It's entirely possible that the effect of drinking one beer for an average, healthy 5'10" male will have a negligible effect on DCS and other dive-related risk for a dive conducted 3 hours later. If the dive op allowed such mid-day drinking to take place, it begs the question where the dive op should draw the line between allowing drinking and prohibiting it.
What about drinking a beer and then diving 2 hours later?
What about 1 hour later?
What about 30 minutes later?
What happens if the diver naturally metabolizes alcohol slower than the average person?
What happens if the diver is taking some other kind of medication/herb/drink/food that inhibits alcohol metabolism?
What if the alcohol inhibits metabolism of a medication that the diver is taking?
What happens if the diver is a smaller person?
What if the diver has poor buoyancy control or has a gear malfunction and needs to surface unexpectedly without a well-managed ascent profile?

I don't have the answers to any of these questions. I think vladimir brought up the practical issue of enforcement on the part of the dive op. From the perspective of the boat crew, I can see how it would be easier to "enforce" the drinking-customers-are-done-diving-for-the-day rule rather than to try to keep tabs on every diving customer's alcohol intake (writing down when and how much they drank the beer/wine/hard liquor).

What happens if there is no dive op?

My position on all of the above is that a diver is responsible for their own safety ... and should decide for themselves how much risk is acceptable. When you start relying on the dive op for enforcement of your safety you will inevitably end up with "lowest common denominator" type policies where you rely on someone else to do your thinking for you. I prefer to understand the risks and make my own decisions ...

... which is why I chose to answer the OP's question, rather than take it to extremes like some of the rest of you did.

DCS risk isn't a switch ... there is no "line" you can draw and call one side safe and the other unsafe. It always boils down to the individual ... and the individual is in a better position than you or me to decide how much risk is acceptable.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Chairman]

My question is..
If I have a beer at lunch (noon) and want to dive at 3:00, how is that going to impair my judgement or dehydrate me?

I can't answer for you, but it would have no affect on me. In fact, I have had a couple of beers at lunch and dove that afternoon on more than one occaision. :shocked2: :shocked2: :shocked2:

I agree with Bob. If you are relying on a Dive Op to police your diving, then you are doing little more than a "trust me" dive. I am the one who will suffer any direct consequences from my actions. I would never dive if I even suspected that I was impaired by alcohol, by sickness or anything else! I must rely on my judgment alone to survive any activity, especially diving.

Worse than a beer, how about those people who are impaired by their own ego???

 

[KWBuddy]

If the dive op allowed such mid-day drinking to take place, it begs the question where the dive op should draw the line between allowing drinking and prohibiting it.

This is a copyrighted document, but it was paid for with Sea Grant money.

I found it while doing research on Drinking and Diving. I has an interesting perspective on the topic as seen from the mid 80's.

--

Bud

 

[The Chairman]

This is a copyrighted document, but it was paid for with Sea Grant money.

I found it while doing research on Drinking and Diving. I has an interesting perspective on the topic as seen from the mid 80's.

--

Bud

I don't believe that this addresses the the OP's question. The article seems to address binge drinking while on vacation. That's stupid even if you DON'T dive.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

-deleted-

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

@Tortuga68: That wasn't how I read the OP. The way I interpreted it, billmosel was wondering whether there was any scientific basis for a liveaboard dive op restricting his mid-day drinking habits (one beer with lunch, then dive 3 hours later).

If there's no liveaboard dive op, then no one will be monitoring his drinking and telling him how long he as to wait (next day?) before he can dive again. There is no scientific evidence which indicates that a normal, healthy adult who drinks 1 beer 3 hours prior to a dive is subjected to increased DCS or dive-related risk. I pointed out fairly early on in this thread, however, that this question of alcohol usage should not be considered in a vacuum. Many people on liveaboards are also taking anti-seasickness medication which can throw another wild card into the mix.

I don't read it that way at all. The liveaboard was used an an example of how a rule is implemented. The OP's question was more general in nature ...

My question is..
If I have a beer at lunch (noon) and want to dive at 3:00, how is that going to impair my judgement or dehydrate me?

The question asks nothing about liveaboards or dive ops.

If there's no dive op, then the diver is left to his own devices as to what constitutes safe dive practices.

Which is as it should be ... I'm in favor of treating adults like adults, which means they own the freedom to make their own decisions, and the responsibility of dealing with the consequences of those decisions.

I agree with you. I'll also point out that I've seen quite a few people who exercise very poor judgment when it comes to drinking alcohol or using recreational drugs. I've witnessed a handful of cases where divers were drinking irresponsibly at night on multi-day repetitive dive trips. In those cases, the divers were diving the next morning with hangovers. Fortunately, nothing bad happened to those people.

There are always consequences to poor judgment ... but once again, your example doesn't reflect the situation of the question posed by the OP.

I'm generally in favor of teaching my students that they, and they alone, are responsible for their safety. People who use poor judgment expose themselves to increased risks in virtually every activity they do. That doesn't mean I want some "nanny" imposing rules that assume everyone's incapable of making their own decisions.

If you cannot be responsible for your own behavior and your own safety, then you shouldn't be diving ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)