Efficiency evidence: frog vs flutter?

[tursiops]

Another interesting report is at http://archive.rubicon-foundation.org/xmlui/bitstream/handle/123456789/3936/12841609.pdf.
Flutter only, but interesting.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

I have performed this test hundreds of times in my pool. Every time frog kick wins in speed and less muscle fatigue.

 

[RyanT]

The other issue with the frog kick is that you get to the energy advantage of the glide between kicks. I suppose you could do this with the flutter kick as well, but most people don't.

 

[ronscuba]

I have performed this test hundreds of times in my pool. Every time frog kick wins in speed and less muscle fatigue.

What was the test that the frog kick always wins over the flutter kick in speed ?

 

[northernone]

Have you got a link to this info? I would like to read it.
Thanks - MM

I was thinking of the dated Fischer research. Here Research papers on fin performance

Or a direct link:
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=AD0780665

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Here's a little context for the thread.

I noticed two forum members on another thread recommending frog kick for decreasing SAC rate so I was curious. Certainly appreciate the other advantages to the kick.... but in my home dive where it's sometimes a few miles swimming in high flow, 0-2ft viz, with a few cylinders, before reaching the area of interest gas savings is of particular interest compared to preserving a sensitive bottom (which ia non existent and far away.) CCR I also like the idea of lowered CO2 production via fin kick choice, the little extra scrubber buffer it provides would be nice. I'm primarily a shore diver in all environments... come to think of it, particularly true in cave diving... so far.

I found it interesting in the one article it noted how there was poor correlation to perceived efficiency and vfo2 rates among the fin testers.

Regards,
Cameron

 

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

The frog kick is my primary way to move forward. I have a number of other forward kicks available for to me to use also. When frog kicking - I believe that about 40 to 50% of the forward movement comes from the “kick” and the balance come from the “coast”. Since - for me - the resting phase is longer in time than the kick portion in time - it is a very relaxing kick style.

 

[Satrekker]

I used to switch back and forth between the two just to mix it up, but after switching to free diving fins for open water, a relaxed, long flutter is the way to go IMO. I only use my Deep 6 fins now for air travel and pool work.

 

[tech3324]

Another interesting report is at http://archive.rubicon-foundation.org/xmlui/bitstream/handle/123456789/3936/12841609.pdf.
Flutter only, but interesting.

That's an interesting report. It's worth reading the "Discussion" on page 67 if nothing else. Thanks for posting.

 

[wheeledgoat]

Interesting indeed, thanks for posting!

Although a previous study suggested that a fin that is too flexible or too rigid did not perform as well as a fin that was intermediate in rigidity (12). This was not supported by this study as the most rigid and most
flexible fin had similar performances.
Based on the physics of fin swimming using the Lighthill model (16, 17) and the VdotO2,
velocity and thrust data, it is clear that some fins have better performance (Attack, Apollo) than
other fins, however this can not be ascribed to a single fin characteristic. It is clear that the
venturis, vents, trauths, splits in the tested fins did not improve the performance of the fin.

so... I should just pick what I like!

 

[ronscuba]

The point of favoring the frog kick over the flutter kick does not have anything to do with efficiency. The frog kick tends to stir up far less silt from the bottom. Also using it, one is less likely to kick and damage the reef.

In most circumstances, divers need to swim in a slow and controlled fashion. There the frog kick is the choice.

I agree on the biggest advantage for the frog kick is to minimize silt up. Perfect for cave, wreck or if you are near the bottom.

Out in the open water, silt up is not a concern. If you are in open water and swim very slow most of the time, does the type of kick and fins really matter much ?

If you sometimes need speed or swim against current, the flutter kick is preferred.

I think it is best to be proficient with both the frog and flutter kick. Depending on the type of diving you do most often, you may favor 1 kick type vs. the other and in that case favor a style of fin vs another.