runsongas
Contributor
with rubber covered rollers, you won't see any external marks on the tank from tumbling. but hydro should be done before tumbling. after the hydro, the most that should be done is some light whipping.
Failed Hydro AND failed Viz?
- Thread starter Waterwulf
- Start date
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Even if it had rubber wheels, the tumbler would still leave a shiny mark where the wheels traveled for supposedly eight hours.
Anyway, I picked my second tank up today. It had a Sticky on it saying "Condemned. Failed hydro and viz". There were no other markings and no X's that are supposed to be stamped over the DOT number if it failed the hydro. When I asked how that was possible, I got no response. I asked which test was done first and got "The Visual Inspection was completed first and then the tank was sent out for hydro testing". So I asked why it was sent out if it had already failed the Visual Inspection. I was told "Because that way, you can keep on using it". Uhhmm say what? I told him I wanted a refund and he gave it back to me with no argument.
In this particular case, I have my own "Conspiracy Theory" about what really happened. The tank being discussed is a steel 72 from the mid seventies and is pretty cruddy looking. The OEM finish is peeling off and it has some surface rust in those places but no pitting. Plus, it's a nasty faded yellow. On the plus side, there are no dents or dings and the interior looked pretty good to my untrained eye. I had planned on making it a project after it got tested to make it look beautiful again.
I think the viz tech at the dive shop took one look at that tank and failed it on the spot based only on it's external appearance. Then for some reason, it never got sent out for the hydro test. At this point, I've lost nothing but gas money and time since I did get a refund on the tests but I plan on calling the place that does all of the hydros here in this area and asking about failures and X's on the DOT number. Aren't they supposed to log them in a log book too? I'm curious.
Anyway, I picked my second tank up today. It had a Sticky on it saying "Condemned. Failed hydro and viz". There were no other markings and no X's that are supposed to be stamped over the DOT number if it failed the hydro. When I asked how that was possible, I got no response. I asked which test was done first and got "The Visual Inspection was completed first and then the tank was sent out for hydro testing". So I asked why it was sent out if it had already failed the Visual Inspection. I was told "Because that way, you can keep on using it". Uhhmm say what? I told him I wanted a refund and he gave it back to me with no argument.
In this particular case, I have my own "Conspiracy Theory" about what really happened. The tank being discussed is a steel 72 from the mid seventies and is pretty cruddy looking. The OEM finish is peeling off and it has some surface rust in those places but no pitting. Plus, it's a nasty faded yellow. On the plus side, there are no dents or dings and the interior looked pretty good to my untrained eye. I had planned on making it a project after it got tested to make it look beautiful again.
I think the viz tech at the dive shop took one look at that tank and failed it on the spot based only on it's external appearance. Then for some reason, it never got sent out for the hydro test. At this point, I've lost nothing but gas money and time since I did get a refund on the tests but I plan on calling the place that does all of the hydros here in this area and asking about failures and X's on the DOT number. Aren't they supposed to log them in a log book too? I'm curious.
Scared Silly
Contributor
If you have a local place that does the requalification (aka hydro) it is usually easier and cheaper to take it to them directly. It will cost you the same or less.
With both cylinders I would take them to the shop (do not call) and ask them to pull the test record for each cylinder. By law each cylinder test must be recorded. By having the cylinders there it will make easier for them. At the same time the cylinder that "failed" can be given to them to test (again?).
I personally do not like the term hydro test, it is really a requalification test. The hydrostatic test is just one part of the requalification test. As noted there is a visual inspection as part of the test. Further, the visual inspection done as part of the requalification test is not the same as that done by the scuba industry.
In general, the annual scuba visual inspection should be done after a cylinder has been returned from the requalification test. As was noted, a cylinder may not be dried properly and need to tumbled or whipped. Also a scuba visual inspection includes the valve and o-ring.
Note the qualifier, "in general." If I was working in a shop and had cylinder come in that would be then sent out for requalification and I saw an obvious issue that would condemn the cylinder I would speak with the customer so to save them money. At the same time ask for permission to condemn the cylinder.
With both cylinders I would take them to the shop (do not call) and ask them to pull the test record for each cylinder. By law each cylinder test must be recorded. By having the cylinders there it will make easier for them. At the same time the cylinder that "failed" can be given to them to test (again?).
I personally do not like the term hydro test, it is really a requalification test. The hydrostatic test is just one part of the requalification test. As noted there is a visual inspection as part of the test. Further, the visual inspection done as part of the requalification test is not the same as that done by the scuba industry.
In general, the annual scuba visual inspection should be done after a cylinder has been returned from the requalification test. As was noted, a cylinder may not be dried properly and need to tumbled or whipped. Also a scuba visual inspection includes the valve and o-ring.
Note the qualifier, "in general." If I was working in a shop and had cylinder come in that would be then sent out for requalification and I saw an obvious issue that would condemn the cylinder I would speak with the customer so to save them money. At the same time ask for permission to condemn the cylinder.
I'll know more on Monday after I connect with the people who do all of the Hydro tests here. Based only on what I've read here posted by people who (I hope!) know more about it than me, I'm pretty sure that somebody made a mistake. Either the shop failed to actually send it out for the Hydro or the Hydro tester people failed to properly condemn it by X-ing out the DOT numbers. I'll find out more and then make a decision as to what to do. The only thing I've actually lost, is gas money, time and trust because they did refund the whole fee.
MidOH
Contributor
I've made a point to never buy tanks from a shop that fails mine. There's no excuse for farming this out. Service the tanks in house.
Get them online. Take away the incentive. Such a rip off.
Get them online. Take away the incentive. Such a rip off.
SlugLife
Contributor
What was the reason it failed the second visual? To fail a tank, you need a reason.
The whole failing both hydro and visual makes zero sense to me. It either fails visual, and doesn't go to hydro, or it fails hydro, and therefore you don't need to vis it.
No, it only got one visual. Per the shop: They do the visual inspection in-house and then send the tank out for the hydro.
The first tank that I took to them for testing failed the visual and passed the hydro. I wondered why they would send it out to hydro testing when it had already for all intents and purposes failed at being a SCUBA tank. But hey I'm no expert so I took them a second tank. (Both were old steel 72's)
The second tank failed the visual so they sent it out for hydro testing, which it also failed. Supposedly it failed but there's nothing to indicate it. I'm questioning if it ever really was sent for testing.
If the official DOT approved Hydro testing facility is legally required to stamp out the DOT number on a failed tank with x's, then there's a problem because this one has no marks like that. I'll find out more on Monday when I talk to the testing facility people.
I don't know the laws and regulations concerning hydro tests, etc. but it seems to me to be totally logical and proper for the testing facility staff to somehow permanently mark the cylinder showing it failed.
Scared Silly
Contributor
A scuba visual has one of three results, pass, fail, condemn. A cylinder that fails a scuba visual does not mean it can not be put back into service. For instance, a cylinder with too much interior rust would be failed. With the rust removed (tumbled) it would pass the scuba visual.
Not unlike a vehicle that fails an emission test. The vehicle cannot be registered until the emission issues are fixed. Once fixed and passed the vehicle can be registered and driven.
So no reason not to send the cylinder for requalification, if the visual issues can be resolved.
This cylinder is oddity. Only way to know is ask the requalification shop.
runsongas
Contributor
if the tank was hydrostatically tested, the DOT requalifier will have a record of the tank along with the test results. ask for a copy of those from either the dive shop or the RIN to call up the requalifier yourself
Boarderguy
Chief Narctopus Wrangler
The setup for hydro testing takes up precious room in a shop and requires a stable environment. The test station must be calibrated daily and maintain X volume with no change measured in hundredths of an ounce for 30 seconds immediately prior to testing. The tank must also be at the stable temp so as to not affect the water in the test vessel. Overall the test takes about 2 minutes but there is a lot of work before and after ensuring everything is exact. This is from memory based on what my coworker described as he prepped to test some tanks. My company hydros the carbon tanks for egress sides and rafts.
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