Fins split or paddles??

[Al Mialkovsky]

I'm looking to try out a set of Scubapro Twin Splits, but the local dive shops who claim they are the greatest fins, ever, don't rent them out and will not stand behind their product with a guarantee that i'll like them if I buy them. That dog don't hunt in today's world, or with any diver who has a piece of over-hyped gear that isn't used anymore.
I'm not syaing SPro TJ's are crap - they've got to be worlds ahead of my current fins, but I don't want to support the old-school dive-shop practices. (after all, Twin Jets are pretty rugged fins, they'd make it as rentals - why not rent them as 'premium fins' at a bit higher price ?)

Best,

MD

So you want to be able to do a test drive in open water with new gear? OK.

We don't rent masks and fins, divers own their own.

At the shop I instruct for we'll let them take a pair into the pool and play with them, I'll let divers use my personal set at a dive site.

I doubt dive shops, internet shops and any shop is ever going to allow customers to take new gear to open water for test runs. Guys like you'd probably go buy online afterwards anyway.

The shop I'm at sells more pairs of twin jets than all other fins, combined. More total pairs of those than anything else.

 

[Karlbiederman]

I dont have near as much experience as others on this board but I think the the best advice I have read so far is that it is your preference that matters. I myself tried out several types of fin's and found that I like the Force Fin Pro.

 

[Mambo Dave]

New gear? No. Rental gear. Why not have a rental set of Twin jets if they're so great? In my personal experience, too many instances (and years) of bicycle shops and dive shops over-hyping the latest and greatest dive equipment (that, in retrospect, wasn't) have left to many customers with a bad feeling about 'em.

Take a defensive attitude, Mialkovsky, if that's the way you market your wares, but I expect the dive community will change with the times. However some dive shops refuse to, and will suffer. I love the desperate dive shops who develop that bad attitude and the pushy sales tactics, too.

Twin Jets are made of a material that, imo, would allow them to be used as rental gear. Taking a credit card number and verifying some's ID, then charging them if the equipment isn't returned - and charging a premium fin price to boot (say $10 vs. $5?) - is a much better policy than the poor attitude and refusal to stand behind a product.

Or are you aware of some reason Twin Jets aren't going to be able to stand up to the test as rental gear? I wouldn't want a product that falls apart that easily, and shops who won't rent them out support the idea that A.) They really aren't that great, or B.) they really don't hold up over time.

I don't believe either is true, but then it does seem that the defensive attitude you are taking has been the same I've seen in dive shops since 1993. I remember it then, took time away from diving, and sadly see it now. Hey, if your customers like it, more power to ya.

edit: sorry, had another job come by to do

That's just not my type of shop. My LDS rents what they have, but sadly they don't carry the TJ's. I buy my gear there, and they know it.

The 'guys like you' claim is a bit of a personal attack, isn't it? I sense a lot of frustration coming this way, lol. I'm not frustrated, I just won't waste my money on 'trust me' claims. What's your excuse for being frustrated? The new market's high expectations?

 

[DiveMaven]

When I was fin shopping, every LDS let me borrow fins to try in the swimming pool. In one case where the shop doesn't have a pool, the manager let me take them for the weekend to give them a test swim. Because of this, I had the opportunity to try many fins before deciding on the ones I liked the best.

That's also the reason I "overpaid" for my fins....I bought them from my LDS for about $20 more than I could have gotten them for on-line....and it was worth every penny for the ability to try before I bought. I'll always pay a little more for excellent customer service.

 

[bradshsi]

I'm not an engineer. I'm speaking from personal experience. I've been in current in split fins and in paddle fins. The paddle fins win. Maybe it's the way I kick. Maybe it's something else. All I know is I move better in current and no current in paddle fins. I've even had divers who swear by splits state they're not great in current.

I've no disagreement with your personal experience. What we can say is that for the fins you have tested (and with your gear configuration), you go faster in paddles than split fins.

What I was pointing out in my previous post, was that to claim "Split fins are no good in current.", is a wild illogical oversimplification. It's a bit like saying "Cars with 2 doors go faster than cars with 4 doors". Clearly it depends what is the top speed of each car not how many doors it has.

The fact remains that current has no influence on the fin performance. In the end if you pick the fin that gives you the best speed performance, you will have the fin that performs best in a current. For you that is a paddle fin and you've proved it through testing. You therefore earn the title of Honorary Engineer

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

Defensive? OK, whatever Mambo.

Dave, we don't put fins OR masks into rental gear. We only provide for divers. Divers own fins. If one of OUR customers wants to test drive anything they get to do it in the pool that we have on site.

You don't get to drag it to the beach, screw it up and come back whining about it later.

 

[rawls]

So what you are saying is that in your experience split fins are not as fast as paddle fins for the gear configuration you dive ?

See how easy that was with no computers required. Then again I didn't see Jim Grier using any either

Bradshsi...You got me...I have no idea who the heck Jim Grier is I'm not trying at all to be offensive and I want to apologize about the computer mumbojumbo remark. It was uncalled for. As to your question... I did not say split fins are not as fast as paddles. I believe split fins are generally a faster fin, in certain conditions. But they are also a more flexible fin too. With the old stiff, non-vented fins you would get the exact amount of propulsion as the energy you put into it. The more flexible the fin the less propulsion you are going to get against a current, and you need the added propulsion when kicking against currents. Split fins are fast but you have to build up to get the maximum speed. When you are kicking against a current you are going to have trouble building up that speed thus basically defeating the speed factor. Anyway...It's simply my view...a view...one view...definitely not everyone's view

 

[Dive-aholic]

I've no disagreement with your personal experience. What we can say is that for the fins you have tested (and with your gear configuration), you go faster in paddles than split fins.

What I was pointing out in my previous post, was that to claim "Split fins are no good in current.", is a wild illogical oversimplification. It's a bit like saying "Cars with 2 doors go faster than cars with 4 doors". Clearly it depends what is the top speed of each car not how many doors it has.

The fact remains that current has no influence on the fin performance. In the end if you pick the fin that gives you the best speed performance, you will have the fin that performs best in a current. For you that is a paddle fin and you've proved it through testing. You therefore earn the title of Honorary Engineer

Why thank you!

And with that honorary distinction behind me let me clarify. I didn't say split fins are no good in current. I said they're not designed for current. I can't really qualify that, but as an honorary engineer, do I have to?!?! JK My belief, based on my experience, is that splits are designed so divers can use less effort when kicking. I was also told it's a good fin to use if you have knee problems. I just don't think splits are designed to handle fast currents. Just like 4 door cars aren't designed for speed, they're designed for convenience and luxury...

 

[joe rock]

For those people who have posted that split fins don't work in a current, pehaps you can explain to everyone else the engineering & fluid theories why this would be the case ?

I'm willing to bet my CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics) parallel computer cluster that you can't....

Simple fact is that if you are in the water a current has no practical significance to how the fins perform. If a fin has a top speed of 2.5 mph then you can hold stationary (relative to the bottom) in a current going that quickly. Alternatively in a 1 mph current you could move forward at 1.5 mph.

It all comes down to what the top speed of a particular fin is. In that respect, the only scientific testing I've seen, confirms that split fins are generally the best performers in terms of top speed and reducing your air consumption.

The link to the testing is below:
http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/instruct/grier/fins.html


If you are still mired in the illogical argument about split fins and current, this link might help you:
http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/instruct/grier/fins-myths.html


The final link is a discussion on finning backwards with split fins which apparently is possible (although I am still learning this skill):
http://dive.scubadiving.com/members/gearreviews.php?s=503

As others have said, try before you buy. Fins are a very personal choice and you need to pick the fin that best suits your requirements.

Now you're not going to let science ruin a good fight are you?

 

[menemsha43]

I agree splits are more efficient (I tried some on my last trip). But I still prefer paddle fins (Avanti quattros) for the attributes many have cited - control/manueverability. For me the benefits of split fins are marginal. For some they probably work well