Seems I've struck a few exposed nerves. I haven't responded before because this is the first time I've been back to this post and had no clue people were offended by a simple statement of how things are. It was not my intention to come across as rude and if you were offended, I do apologize. I know that the tone in my written word does not always come across as I intend, but I missed the potential in this post. After rereading my post, I still don't see what would give offense.
OTOH, I stand by what I said.
"Are you divers? Did you actually earn your cards?"
A simple question to which I'm not looking for an answer. It is, however, a question everyone with a c-card needs to ask themselves.
"If the answer is yes, you don't need a baby sitter."
An in water DM is usually exactly that. A site briefing is usually very helpful, but beyond that, a competent diver (newbie or experienced) doesn't need a DM's assistance.
"If you need someone to lead you around by the hand, you need to take a real class and actually learn how to dive."
If a diver needs a DM in the water, that diver is not ready to make the dive and actually needs more work on skills and confidence.
"It is not part of a DM's job to lead you around and, in Florida, it is not common."
In water DM's are found everywhere, but it is not the norm in Florida. When float diving, it is common practice for a member of each group to be given a float. There are places where a DM will carry the float for customers. In my experience, this is usually done by operators who want to limit bottom time.
"In some parts of the world, operators have given up on having customers who actually know how to dive and provide an in water DM as a result. If you show up to many parts of the world, they assume you don't know how to dive and treat you accordingly. Personally, I resent such an attitude."
Face facts, most classes are inadequate and most instructors are incompetent. They produce divers who do need a baby sitter. This is nothing new. I spend 1985 through 1992 working as a DM and/or Captain on a dive boat in the Keys. I can't tell you how many "divers" I had to rescue, because I lost count early on. I was stunned at the number of divers who have no idea what they are doing. Most of those rescues were the result of inadequate training.
"There are way too many nondivers out there with c-cards who've never learned how to dive."
Wendy,
"I think you are way off here."
Perhaps. It is opinion.
"There are many dive ops in Florida that have in water dive masters to lead the dive."
Of course there are, but it is not the norm.
"It has nothing to do with your ability to dive and they are not paid babysitters for the divers. All the charters I have been on in Jupiter and West Palm have in water DM's. They tow the flag so the boat knows where the group is and so the divers can enjoy there div looking around."
No, it has nothing to do with your ability to dive. It has to do with the average person's ability to dive. Good divers and poor are all lumped together as if they were all poor divers. The diver with the flag shouldn't be towing it. That diver should be drifting with the current along with everyone else and should also be enjoying the dive. I've been on many where a member of my group (often me) will carry the float. I've also been on charters where a DM carries the float. Those dives are rarely as enjoyable.
"I think that it is a good idea for divers new to a site to get a DM to show them around, and if not a DM, at least have someone that knows the site show them around the first time."
Why?
Welshman,
"1. I am a diver.
2. I did earn my cards.
3. I neither need nor want a babysitter."
I'm glad to hear it.
"However, if I dive a site for the first time I would like guidance on what to expect, what I should look out for, what I might see etc."
I agree. That's the purpose of a dive briefing.
Phil,
"I won't comment on your rude and abrupt response...."
Looks like you just did. If you ever feel I've been rude, please do comment. It is not my intention to be rude. Please accept my apology.
"I was simply asking if it was a normal practice for DM to stay on board while first timers to boat diving were on board."
I believe I answered that question. Yes, it is normal practice for the DM to stay on board.
"Come on Walt....lighten up man......it was a simple question.....or maybe your mom should have called you Rambo !"
Rambo would be preferred to Walt. OTOH, Rambo would indicate a "macho" attitude. That would be inaccurate. I do believe every diver should be self sufficient. I also believe divers should be more thoroughly taught.
scubabear,
"the days when instructors were ex. military, and tried their best to wash out students, under the guise of teaching self reliance I kind of understand where Walter is coming from."
Not if you put me in that group. I've never been in the military. I've never tried to wash out a student. Just about anyone can learn to dive with all the skills so many courses have dropped IF the skills are presented in the right order, IF the skills are actually taught, IF the student has time to master one skill prior to moving on to the next and IF the instructor has patience and actually knows how to teach the skills.
"I would however submit that most people enter diving these days to relax and enjoy themselves."
Which person is more relaxed on a dive, the one with confidence and experience in different scenarios or the one praying nothing goes wrong?
martinjc,
I wasn't in a bad mood. I simply wasn't aware I wasn't going "a little easier on the newbies." I still don't understand where I made a "personal affront." I obviously did as so many people do see it.
) provide DMs for the divers. 
