Florida Fossil Permit

[Law5Guy]

Just wondering... how many folks that collect fossils while diving Venice beach have a permit?

It seems that if you pick up vertebrate fossils, it is required. Manatees, Whales, mastodons, horses, etc, are all vertebrates. So seems that a permit is required?

Please see info on the permit here:
FLMNH - Vertebrate Paleontology - Florida Fossil Permits

What Objects are Covered?
It is Florida's public policy to protect and preserve vertebrate fossils, including bones, teeth, natural casts, molds, impressions, and other remains of prehistoric vertebrate animals. Fossil sharks teeth are specifically excluded from these regulations, as are the fossils of plants, invertebrate animals (e.g., mollusks, sea urchins, crabs, etc.), and other organisms, so no permit is required to collect such specimens. A permit is required to collect fossils of all other kinds of vertebrates, namely fish (except sharks teeth), amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals.

I see no exemption that I can see on the Venice website for vertebrate fossils:
Sec

I have been diving a few times off Venice beach with Florida West Scuba School. There was no mention of a permit needed for anything. Are they hmm... 'encouraging' violations of the law? Also, do other dive boats, for example the Aristakat, require the permit?

 

[safyrewulfie]

The real question is, is the gulf waters considered state owned and how far out?

 

[Walter]

The permit is easy to get and not expensive at all. The exemption is for shark teeth.

The real question is, is the gulf waters considered state owned and how far out?

Yes, nine miles out into the Gulf.

 

[Gilldiver]

In the US, State waters of the oceans are usualy out to 3 miles from the mean high water line. Federal waters extend from that 3 mile line out to 12 miles. In special cases, these distances can be further for enclosed bodies of water (Great Lakes, Long Island Sound, etc) or where there are islands, capes, etc.

 

[safyrewulfie]

I called someone from FWC who is looking into this as well for me. Since many of us are law enforcement peoples. He said the state "line" for gulf waters is 9 mls. So anything under the 9mls is state owned.

 

[Walter]

In the US, State waters of the oceans are usualy out to 3 miles from the mean high water line. Federal waters extend from that 3 mile line out to 12 miles.

That's true in the Atlantic, but this is the Gulf where state waters extend 9 miles.

 

[safyrewulfie]

We special here in the south lol.

 

[Law5Guy]

I emailed Dr. Hulbert at the Florida Museum of Natural History (his email is linked at the bottom of the website).

Looks like it is indeed required:


From: Richard Hulbert [mailto:rhulbert@flmnh.ufl.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 10:55 AM
To: Bill
Subject: Re: Florida Fossil Permit question

Yes, you do need a permit to collect vertebrate fossils (other than shark teeth) from areas belonging to the state of Florida, and that includes the ocean floor off shore as well as river beds. At some distance from shore, I believe 5 miles, but this may be more in the Gulf, state jurisdiction gives way to federal control, so the state-issued permit would not apply in those areas (and collecting of any kind without a federally issued permit would be prohibited). But within this boundary divers do need a permit to collect such fossils legally.

Richard Hulbert

 

[thegulfer]

It looks to me like you only need one if you collect "vertebrate fossils" at any ONE site more than THREE times a year or sell them. (see the link in the first post "Who must obtain a permit?")

And how big is "a site"?

Also, FWIW, I don't see why the dive operators should in any way be responsible enforcing this. They might want to let their regular customers know about it and for all I know they may already do so.

I rarely keep anything but the shark's teeth anyway.

Walter is right though. It's pretty cheap and all you have to do is tell them what you find annually. Of course it looks like they can "request" that you "donate" some of your finds to them.

 

[Fossilbabe]

I have had a fossil permit for since this program started. I have been fossil collecting for many years 10+. Fossil permit is cheap and easy to get. Most of the divers are looking for shark teeth. Unless they have changed it ,Shark teeth,fossil invertebrates (fossil shells,trace fossils) and a few others are exempt. As for the Aristakat charters I am the guardian who assumes responsibilities and obligations for the collected specimens. If you look at some of the local profession guide services for fossil collecting,(peace river) is a good example. All clients are covered under that guide service. He assumes the responsibility for the collected fossil. He doesnt not require his clients to get a permit weeks ahead of time. If something has been found and it is significant, you can bet it will be reported. This is part of the reason we have set up a fossil ID page here.

Quote:Are they hmm... 'encouraging' violations of the law?
Humm this could be something everyone can be guilty of. Would you say this about the Chamber of Commerce,schools,dive shops,radio stations,tv stations,sharK tooth festival,the list could just go on and on. They all say the same thing go to the beach and find shark teeth. So if one person picks up on piece of say: fossil turtle they are in violations of the law?
There are many of us that use the local charters a lot of us do have fossil permits. If any thing significant is found it will be reported. I have donated several items to FLMNH. I could keep this going and on and on this with this post. Discussion like this come up all the time it is normal. Asking questions is good,you dont know if you dont ask. I have always said if you have something and you need it id please drop me a pm or email as well. If you need my personal cell phone number pm me and I will send it to you. I can also recieve pictures of fossil on my phone and help id them as well. Thank you so much for bringing this up for all of us to learn a little about. Feel free anytime to drop me a pm or message. I would love to help out as much as I can. ~~~fossilbabe~~~