Fresh ammo for the bp/wings debate

[Pez de Diablo]

Seajay,

You are a great writer and behind every successful writer is an editor. There are many types of editors, technical, grammatical and the list goes on. My suggestion is to continue writing articles voicing your opinions and utilize people such as Walter to make editorial comments prior to publishing the article.

Whether I agree or disagree with your stance I always value your opinion.

 

[SeaJay]

Thanks, Scoob!

Walter; guys... Okay, polishing now... Including the historical references.

Perhaps (if I can stop feeling so personal about writing) we can all sorta influence this article together and obtain the objective... To help others to understand why those who dive with bp/wings are such zealots.

Wouldn't it be cool to have something like this to help explain it all? I would love for it to become a "good training tool" as MikeS put it.

Good points, y'all. It should be polished. Edited. We can build it better, stronger, faster.

If anyone with better artistic skills feels the need to improve on my very simplistic diagrams, feel free.

 

[Raven C]

Walter,

I would like to ask what kind of fins do you use?

There is an important factor to consider when discussing gear...people need to try the gear before they openly critic. And furthermore, they have to dive what they fill is best for them.

Sometimes performance is not what people are really looking for. There is a small group of people who just want to do recreational diving and want to feel secure all snug in a jacket BC. They don't mind having Sh*t dragging around in the water snagging on things. They think that pulling the straps nice and tight makes sure they don't fall out of the BC. That way, they won't drown. To them I say OK. If that's what you feel is best for you.

Then there are others who dive a certain type of gear only because someone else dives it, or because someone told them to. They don't know why, they just do it.

Then there are issues were some type/style of diving that calls for a specific type of gear and heaven forbid you mix and match styles because you won't fit into the "Clan."

There are some who dive a certain type and the whole world is wrong if they don’t do the same. The make fun of those who are different.

There are people who really like to dive with minimal gear. This makes them feel more comfortable and streamlined.

There are some people who try to educate themselves as much as possible to make the best educated decision as to what gear will work for them under certain circumstances.

And then there are people who look for gear that will fit period.

I tried several gear configurations and read lots of material and asked lots of questions about gear before deciding to purchase gear. I wanted to educate myself on gear. I wanted to know what does what and why? What would work best for me and I found out that a custom BC was necessary. I am a very small female and minor gear issues for some are huge issues for me. I remember shopping for my exposure suit and being discouraged when I had a hard time finding adult suits that would fit. At just under 5'3/under 100 lbs with a small frame standard BCs were/are huge even XS. When your buddy's thigh is as big as your waist you have a hard time getting things to fit.

I do agree with Walter that dive skills have a lot to do some of the issues mentioned in SJ’s article. But as I mentioned before some people don’t care… about skill, or safety, whatever - they just want to get in the water. They don’t care about educating themselves, improving skill levels, nor do they care what is the best gear for them and how do I use my gear? Period. These people you look at and talk to and appreciate their love for diving much like your own and make sure that you don’t buddy up with them. No just kidding. If they are open, share some of your knowledge with them. Maybe they never looked at it from your point of view.
I think it is great that people share their knowledge on the boards. I also can appreciate individual’s opinions. I think it really sucks when people are just out to slam or flame. None of us know everything. But, the Board is a great place to learn. Please keep the information coming and keep the negativity minimal. There is a lot of truth to the information gathered in SJ’s article and it is known that he prefers a BP/Wing setup to a jacket BC. But, both facts and opinions are there. What if we share why we chose the type of gear we did vs. downing another for his/her choice. Maybe you might help someone else decide that your gear selection is what they are looking for. Hopefully, those who are curious are willing to go the extra step to inquire. Or, better yet, those who are so willing to criticize have already tried the different types and can add their input along with why they chose what they did.

 

[SeaJay]

MikeS once bubbled...
Seajay,

However, despite being a BP and Wing owner I thought your article was blatantly bias toward a BP&W. You left out the advantages that a traditional BC has over a BP&W. For example, a new diver can put on a SeaQuest Balance, pull the shoulder, waist, and chest straps tight in 30 seconds, versus the hours that it takes to adjust a BP&Ws.

I mentioned that very briefly in passing in describing a jacket-style BC when I said, "They are also quickly and easily adjusted while on the diver, and provide the diver with a comforting "heads up" position while floating on the surface." I know that that subject really deserves more than a passing mention, but I am reminded that both Dive Rite and OMS make harnesses for backplates that also have buckles and quick releases so that a diver can adjust his rig on the fly.

I personally prefer the permenancy of the continuous loop, but I "tweaked" it for about a dozen dives before being really happy with it. Now that it's adjusted, I'm happy that it never moves. However, "quick adjusters" - similar to what you might find on jacket-style BC's and back-inflate style BC's - are available for bp/wing owners.

Therefore I felt that the point was a moot one, and was better left unaddressed.

 

[leadweight]

That reply was great. I have to agree with almost everything you said. It is just that the BC thing gets debated a lot around here, probably more than any other gear issue. I have trouble even trying to decide what is in second place.

By the way, what are those magic fins you keep in your carry on bag? Perhaps I want some.

 

[Dryglove]

leadweight once bubbled...
That reply was great. I have to agree with almost everything you said.

Well thats a big shock you agreeing with walter considering your totally anti BP/Wing. I must admit i finally purchased a OMS wing(non bungeed of course). Now i just need to find a way to get rid of that pesky OMS patch......just kidding

 

[Aquamaniac]

Amusing Thread............thx

 

[Walter]

I find it interesting that folks are getting so worked up over this topic.

I've dived with BC's that were vests, back inflate (yes, the original back inflate and wings), horse collar and with no BC at all. I've never even seen a BC that could reasonably be called a "jacket." I don't care for padding or cummberbunds on any style. I do prefer a bladderless (AKA single bladder) design. Other than that, I see very little difference in one to the other.

SeaJay,

I'd be interested in your response to my post. Post it if you'd like, if not, I'd like you to send a copy to me. I'm interested in your thoughts.

RavenC & leadweight,

Jet Fins.

 

[leadweight]

lal7176 once bubbled...


Well thats a big shock you agreeing with walter considering your totally anti BP/Wing. I must admit i finally purchased a OMS wing(non bungeed of course). Now i just need to find a way to get rid of that pesky OMS patch......just kidding

lal7176,

I don't get it. Walter debunked some of the excessive jubilation that is often expressed over the BP & Wings.

Many around here think that I am anti BP & Wings. What I am against is the over-selling of the BP & wings by this particular online community. That leaves me in the position of pointing out some areas where the Bp & wings are weak. A lot of people around here are of the mindset that BP & Wings are the ultimate rig for all divers and all conditions. That is a ridiculous claim for just about any gear. I also tire easily of those that think it is impossible to be a good diver in a jacket. I did not like my first jacket BC, but some other jacket might have worked well enough that I would have never bothered to replace it. Let's face it, gear does not make the diver.

 

[Dectek]

The Regulator is the Heart of your life support...not the BC. You can scuba dive without a BC but never without a Regulator.

If you find that you are going to rework the article any ...you may want to take into account that there are at least 3 types of jacket BCDs.
#1 Some older Stab Jackets were primarily a back inflate bladder that had a Vest made of nylon to be worn as a comfortable alternative to the straps.
#2 Many "Jacket type BCDs" provide flotation primarily in the back with little wings under the arms leaving the chest area free from squeeze.
#3 The type you illustrated in the article that provide front and back flotation. I refer to these as the over the shoulder bladder type.
Each of these types of "Jacket " style BCDs have different buoyancy characteristics, pros, and cons. I think you do a good job as a writer and I salute you as to your goal as an educator of newer divers but to be fair to yourself and to your readers....all this information should be included into an article of this nature.