Gas Booster Drive Gas Volume

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@iain/hsm how does one slow down the microboost? Isn't it direct drive? Also why are you awake at this time of night?

If you are serious about it being able to go up to 3000psi on the same supply pressure by increasing fans, then I'm about to buy one... The charge rate doesn't really bother me as I'm using an Invacare homefill unit right now. I have increased the pressure in the PSA chambers so the content is a bit better and the argon content only really matters in a CCR. A dil flush every 15mins instead of 45 mins seems to be sufficient to keep the buildup down. When using it for blending nitrox, it's no different than a membrane system so I'm not really concerned about that.
 
@iain/hsm how does one slow down the microboost? Isn't it direct drive? Also why are you awake at this time of night?

If you are serious about it being able to go up to 3000psi on the same supply pressure by increasing fans, then I'm about to buy one... The charge rate doesn't really bother me as I'm using an Invacare homefill unit right now. I have increased the pressure in the PSA chambers so the content is a bit better and the argon content only really matters in a CCR. A dil flush every 15mins instead of 45 mins seems to be sufficient to keep the buildup down. When using it for blending nitrox, it's no different than a membrane system so I'm not really concerned about that.

Thats easy, just move to England or Jamacia motors slow down themselves as if by magic.
But for the case of Jamacia in which case its just too laid back to run any faster.
To you lot the motor on the Microboost behaves itself and runs at 181 RPM (60Hz)
Once in UK it runs at 150 RPM (50Hz)

But we in the UK are also required to use more VFD conrols so its of little problem at our end of the design. In Europe we are required to use a control soft start or VSD/VFD drive control on motors over 7.5Kw (10 BHP) anywhy and in 10 days time that law will change to any motor over (I think) .75 BHP

Even vacuum cleaners are now under EU law to reduce suction, go figure.
And you wonder why Briexit and kicking away from the EU Europe is such a popular topic here.

My advise is dont buy a new one just yet wait until the new replacement is launched.
The old motor was a custom built work of art wired for dual voltage both 110 and 230 volts and also dual Hz 50 or 60 Hz Yet I concede customers only required one or the other of the frequency.

Further together with the gearbox 9:1 reduction gearing and a right angle hollow shaft drive it was an engineering masterpiece a thing of beauty but it took a major slice of manufacture component cost.

Engineering was happy with the build but I guess Rix sales and marketing didnt make a profit.
Before that the original build design cost even more and had provision for a temperature RTD to be fitted into the final 3rd stage head. By the time you fitted a 5000psi rated thermocouple and a digital temperature display, cost wise was a step too far and the idea was dropped.

The new version will be belt driven with a "normal" off the shelf motor and needs a big flywheel to lower the motor speed I can tell you now It doesnt look very pretty when compared to a stepper motor or servo motor. But thats progress I guess and giving the cutomer what he wants or should that be selling stuff what he deserves. LOL
 
@iain/hsm even if I can get basically a new old stock unit for about $2000USD and have my electricians fit a VFD to it?

How is that going to help? You are already in USA running at 181RPM it's our lot that needs the VFD drive to jack our speeds up from 150 RPM to match your 181 RPM at 60Hz I can't see the point of going any faster than 181 RPM except maybe 200 RPM. But the cost to do that is a diminished return for the slight increase in flow rate.

Only if you want to reduce the speed of the booster/compressor to match your generator flow rate, but again a much cheaper option would be just to run the oxygen generator flat out and let the discharge pressure decay match the HP booster. There comes a point where they will match as the discharge pressure from your generator reduces to match the charging rate of the booster, the pair will end up at a matched position but at a reduced flow rate. (if its designed to do this of course)

I did this with a modified 3 stage SA block and a modified electric oxygen booster as in the photo below, worked well in that you could deliver a 16 scfm charging rate with a small 1.5HP motor on the booster to the customer, filling on the fly directly to his cylinders quick and fast then later you could fill the intermediate bank back up to 2000 psi at your leisure using a 3.7 Kw motor on the HP compressor. The 2000psi intermediate bank was also used as the source supply drive gas through the booster.

To fully charge the main HP storage bank to 5000psi (not oxygen) you ran the intermediate bank through the booster and to gas route to a medium pressure 3 cylinder 2000 psi bank all running single phase. Further when working both at the same time a reduced flow rate was achieved from 16 scfm to 7 cfm when both the compressor and bank were both balanced using pressure decay to match both performance rates.

From memory the design philosophy was tad more complicated but for this post the intermediate bank (for the booster supply gas could be made 50/50 by continuous blending from ambient pressure though the compressor thereby scavenging all the oxygen (and helium) in storage down to zero.
Then either the pure oxygen or pure helium banks could be routed to the storage for make up gas or oil free HP air used to dilute the mix.
Or when making any other nitrox mix to the main storage banks say 32-36% at 300 bar you used the intermediate bank with anything in and use either the booster or the compressor to top up the percentage or reduce down the percentage with either running the oil free compressor or booster.

It was a basically a poor mans "Mix Maker" with a "waste not want not" advantage in that all the bought in pure gas was used to make up anything you needed either for storage or on the fly. And all running single phase (or 3P) with minimum power and all bench mounted well off the dirt dust and rubbish blowing about on the floor LOL

I should add:

Note that all the HP gas pipework in the 1/4" size is not in stainless. It's important.
16 scfm is too high a gas velocity for oxygen at high pressure unless you want to use the gas lines to heat the building up with I guess.

The only stainless tube you see are static pressure lines to the HP gauges these are OK in stainless but note it's in 1/8 tubing to avoid ignition in the event of a bourdon tube failure, dead heading the gauge movement or when you turn on and blasting the delicate movement with a massive pressure shock load and the requisite adiabatic shock.

Heck this is a long process, Oxygen Hackers Handbook for Professionals I guess.
Or what happens when you let the old gas monkey loose with a pair of pipe benders
and a roll of pretty green electrical tape. ROFL

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@iain/hsm VFD was to slow it down, not to speed it up. I have HUGE storage capacity compared to my demand, 7x 4500psi cascades for nitrox and 3x 3000psi cascades for O2, so I'd rather it run 24hrs/day for 3-4 days to refill after a trip than speed it up.
My generator is also on the slow side, only capable of about 3lpm and I don't really want to upgrade it at this point since my demand isn't that high, but this would be used with. It is constant output of 3lpm at 25psi
Booster would be used for topping up bottles after being cascaded out of the banks. Personal fill station, not commercial!
 
@iain/hsm VFD was to slow it down, not to speed it up. I have HUGE storage capacity compared to my demand, 7x 4500psi cascades for nitrox and 3x 3000psi cascades for O2, so I'd rather it run 24hrs/day for 3-4 days to refill after a trip than speed it up.
My generator is also on the slow side, only capable of about 3lpm and I don't really want to upgrade it at this point since my demand isn't that high, but this would be used with. It is constant output of 3lpm at 25psi
Booster would be used for topping up bottles after being cascaded out of the banks. Personal fill station, not commercial!


Like I said above in my last post [/QUOTE]if you want to reduce the speed of the booster/compressor to match your generator flow rate, but again a much cheaper option would be just to run the oxygen generator flat out and let the discharge pressure decay match the HP booster."
[/QUOTE]

Which in your case with your oxygen generator running at 3LPM @ 25psi oxygen coupled directly into the standard 181 RPM HP booster this will "balance out" and resulting in the same 3LPM charging rate (flow) but with the inlet flow pressure reduced due to pressure drop resulting at about 5 psi inlet pressure to the booster when they both balance out.

You have to add nothing just hook them up together.

Now if you add the additional cost of a VFD drive all you can do is reduce the RPM of the booster. And all that changes on the booster is that the inlet pressure goes from the 5psi balanced decay pressure from the generator back up to 25 psi...........so what?

Also the power needed to drive the HP booster increases a little too as the inlet pressure increased from 5 to 25 increase rod load I guess but all in all nothing much else happens for all your effort.

Now if your going to jack up from the 2200/2400psi designed discharge pressure and want that increasing to say 3000 psi, then you also increase the compression ratio and the rod loading and again increase the heat generated by compression with also an increase in interstage pressure.

It then get interesting as to where you put the stops in the new requirement compared to where you put them in the first place original design.

So do you now calculate your new running design condition (that was originally set at the original relief valve settings) that in turn were originally set 20% higher than the pressure cut out switch pressure setting, or re calculate at the pressure switch setting making that a 25% uplift.

And if you want to decrease the compression ratio for safety sake do you increase the inlet pressure because that will increase the rod loading and power required to drive the thing and so on and so on.

Making it easier in many ways to remove all the safety. Stuff in the filling hoses and just boost the heck out of it blind like the air driven boosters driven with air, hope and a prayer.
 
Can you explain this a little bit, as I have little booster knowledge but am trying to grow it through these and other discussions. I have been interested in masterline/sierra type boosters but the information out there on them is hard to come by. On a regular Haskel style booster I know that the speed of the booster is directly related to the drive gas pressure and volume as well as the supply gas pressure/volume. I'm trying to understand how speed is regulated with an electric booster. Say for example I have a K cylinder of oxygen at 2200 psi and I'm trying to fill an al40 that's half full to 3000psi. Obviously the speed of the boosting will lower as the supply lowers and the receiving tank builds pressure. I know that masterline has a decent scfm output, and I was told that operation is "turn it on and let it boost" which is obviously oversimplified, but how exactly do you slow the fill speed to decrease heat production? If you use a line valve at the fill end and just crack it to slow speed, it may make the booster shut off automatically (I'm assuming this). In this scenario would you need a two stage regulator (reducing regulator) to lower the flow rate coming from the supply bottle to slow the boost speed? I would think a two stage oxygen regulator may not be able to have enough precise control at low pressures (though this may be another assumption based on my misunderstanding).

Thanks for the info on this. I really have trouble finding any real world knowledge on proper use of an electric booster. I eventually plan to move to a booster to augment my fill station but am trying to build my knowledge base enough to eventually make an informed decision on what to get. You can always message me if you think it will derail this thread.

For all practical purposes the masterline has one speed. For a tiny 2L bottle its going to be fast. The most practical way to slow it down is to add a panel with multiple whips and fill a half dozen 2L bottles at the same time. You can also lower the inlet pressure but that does essentially nothing to reduce the heat of compression of the exiting gas.
 
For all practical purposes the masterline has one speed. For a tiny 2L bottle its going to be fast. The most practical way to slow it down is to add a panel with multiple whips and fill a half dozen 2L bottles at the same time. You can also lower the inlet pressure but that does essentially nothing to reduce the heat of compression of the exiting gas.
I made sure to put a steel 100 on with the 2 liter. Fill the 2 liter off the steel hundred and then start the booster, topping them both up.
 
Brilliant Wook
 
Yeah, that was back when I was filling O2 to 3400. The smarter minds at PSI/PCI abused me of that notion. And I do mean abused, but the system works at 2900 too.
 

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