Gas Booster Drive Gas Volume

[rddvet]

Well, Hell. Even I have a used Masterline for sale, but theSierra isn't O2 rated out of the box. You have to pt in an O2 kit, which doesn't seem to be available any more....

Doesn't master line also alter the sierra some to affect fill speed. I though they either changed a pulley or made it double stage to slow down the unit for oxygen use. I don't think they only make it oxygen clean.

 

[Wookie]

Doesn't master line also alter the sierra some to affect fill speed. I though they either changed a pulley or made it double stage to slow down the unit for oxygen use. I don't think they only make it oxygen clean.

I've never used a Sierra, so I can't speak to fill speed in comparison, but the masterline is an innapropriate tool to fill a 2 liter with O2. I only did it once, and the 2 liter was too hot to touch.

 

[RayfromTX]

yikes, glad you are still with us

 

[iain/hsm]

AA wants a bit over 4K for a used Sierra booster, about double the cost of the Haskel you were thinking of, but not too far from Haskel+compressor territory.

Not when you consider that the Sierra booster is complete ready to go with
Inlet and discharge pressure gauges
Inlet and discharge particulate filters
High pressure pressure switch auto cut out
Flow control valve for easy equlization
Non return valves
Safety relief valves
And a motor with full control, stop start buttons and overload relay to drive the thing

Add the cost of a 15 cfm oil free LP compressor to even the baby Haskel sports booster
and your over the price of the Sierra unit before your finished, like for like.

For comparison enclosed below is a Haskel build frame front and back we build with all of the above safety controls fitted but without the LP air drive compressor shown.

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And another showing a single 10 scfm Haskel booster unit showing with the big grey LP compressor box in the background left hand side to drive it.

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[tbone1004]

@iain/hsm the problem with the two baby boosters you posted pictures of is the 150bar fill limit which is nowhere near enough to make them worthwhile and part of why you almost never see them talked about in diving.
Make it 250bar and about $3k USD and I bet you'll get a ton of interest, hell I'd buy one tomorrow, but a 150bar compressor just isn't worth it to me and that's why the pneumatic boosters are as popular as they are

 

[iain/hsm]

I've never used a Sierra, so I can't speak to fill speed in comparison, but the masterline is an innapropriate tool to fill a 2 liter with O2. I only did it once, and the 2 liter was too hot to touch.

Im sorry to disagree here but for the sake of fairness and accurcy filling a 2 litre cylinder at the 16 scfm charging rate that either the Masterline or the Sierra boosters are both very capable of is an operator problem not the fault of the hardware.

As Its a booster pump (and not a compressor) and like all other booster pumps as such you as the operator have to make the call as to the regulated inlet pressure against your required outlet pressure and calculate out the flow and also calculate your acceptable heat load and compression ratio with which to meet your charging needs.

For others the build shown in the photo below is an example we did for an prototype oxygen service application with both new ring material and seal modifications with some material changes.
In addition a high temp RTD high temperature cut out was fitted, the piston seals/rings and valves materials were changed, the plumbing was arrange as a single acting two stage design than the typical gas hammer design of double acting single stage boosters more suited for inert gas applications than oxygen.

Relief valve, hour meter, remote temperature cut out and internal inlet as well as outlet micronic filtration were all added for the oxygen version and an additonal increased 500 hour ring service interval.

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[iain/hsm]

@iain/hsm the problem with the two baby boosters you posted pictures of is the 150bar fill limit which is nowhere near enough to make them worthwhile and part of why you almost never see them talked about in diving.
Make it 250bar and about $3k USD and I bet you'll get a ton of interest, hell I'd buy one tomorrow, but a 150bar compressor just isn't worth it to me and that's why the pneumatic boosters are as popular as they are

I appreciate what you are saying but this is not reason enough.

THIS IS:

With an oxygen compressor I am responsible for the design set limits, safe working performance perameters and all and any safey devices fitted.

With an oxygen booster pump Your are.

Thats it in a nutshell.

 

[tbone1004]

I appreciate what you are saying but this is not reason enough.

THIS IS:

With an oxygen compressor I am responsible for the design set limits, safe working performance perameters and all and any safey devices fitted.

With an oxygen booster pump Your are.

Thats it in a nutshell.

huh? with oxygen boosters out now that are going to 3000psi to deal with the high pressure O2, what would the issue be?
My problem with this guy is that I would have to get creative to bypass the O2 sensor to use it for anything other than O2.... Would much rather have a microboost that can get up to 250bar and use it for whatever gas I want...
Philips - UltraFill Home oxygen system

 

[rddvet]

Im sorry to disagree here but for the sake of fairness and accurcy filling a 2 litre cylinder at the 16 scfm charging rate that either the Masterline or the Sierra boosters are both very capable of is an operator problem not the fault of the hardware.

As Its a booster pump (and not a compressor) and like all other booster pumps as such you as the operator have to make the call as to the regulated inlet pressure against your required outlet pressure and calculate out the flow and also calculate your acceptable heat load and compression ratio with which to meet your charging needs.

Can you explain this a little bit, as I have little booster knowledge but am trying to grow it through these and other discussions. I have been interested in masterline/sierra type boosters but the information out there on them is hard to come by. On a regular Haskel style booster I know that the speed of the booster is directly related to the drive gas pressure and volume as well as the supply gas pressure/volume. I'm trying to understand how speed is regulated with an electric booster. Say for example I have a K cylinder of oxygen at 2200 psi and I'm trying to fill an al40 that's half full to 3000psi. Obviously the speed of the boosting will lower as the supply lowers and the receiving tank builds pressure. I know that masterline has a decent scfm output, and I was told that operation is "turn it on and let it boost" which is obviously oversimplified, but how exactly do you slow the fill speed to decrease heat production? If you use a line valve at the fill end and just crack it to slow speed, it may make the booster shut off automatically (I'm assuming this). In this scenario would you need a two stage regulator (reducing regulator) to lower the flow rate coming from the supply bottle to slow the boost speed? I would think a two stage oxygen regulator may not be able to have enough precise control at low pressures (though this may be another assumption based on my misunderstanding).

Thanks for the info on this. I really have trouble finding any real world knowledge on proper use of an electric booster. I eventually plan to move to a booster to augment my fill station but am trying to build my knowledge base enough to eventually make an informed decision on what to get. You can always message me if you think it will derail this thread.

 

[iain/hsm]

huh? with oxygen boosters out now that are going to 3000psi to deal with the high pressure O2, what would the issue be?
My problem with this guy is that I would have to get creative to bypass the O2 sensor to use it for anything other than O2.... Would much rather have a microboost that can get up to 250bar and use it for whatever gas I want...
Philips - UltraFill Home oxygen system

Huh What Eh? LOL

I think we are back to under running again.
Look the Phillips unit you example runs at a flow rate of 2.2 LPM and is a two (2) stage booster.

That's a third less flow than the Microboost
The Microboost runs at 7.55 Lpm and is a three (3) stage compresor.

So by using the same analogy you could either slow down the flow rate of the Mictoboost and increase the pressure so you get your required 3000psi pressure and achieve the same heat generated output load as the higher flow at a lower pressure. P1 V1 over T1 is balanced we are all happy.

Alternativly keep the same 7.55 LPM flow and set it for your 3000psi pressure but as the engineer I would require that we add additional cooling by adding say a small computer type 120mm square fan
160 M3/hr cooling flow would add about 19 watts at 230 volts to the build. Again all is calm in the world.

Either option, for a required increase in pressure to 3000psi would work as the risk of additional temperature is either equal if we reduce the flow or equal again if we add aditional cooling to compensate.
Clear as mud I know but given time it becomes clear.

I should add that your Philips unit example is for medical use and 90 to 93% purity is common
for diving you need to be dealing with 100% divers oxygen quality as in time the Argon balance content can bite you and no one does any analysis for that little problem.

For a 250 bar pressure.............add two fans (just kidding) LOL Iain