Gordon Ramsey eats Shark Fin Soup for the first time

[Cave Diver]

I love it when someone tries to explain my culture/heritage/traditional practices to me.

You mentioned the notion of scarcity and the representation of status/wealth.
In traditional Chinese culture, it's more than that.

When it comes to food in Chinese culture, taste is not the only reason for incorporating certain elements in a dish.

Would you mind providing your insight regarding these statements?

Just for clarity, I have no idea about the history of this, I'm just curious in hearing more about the alternate viewpoint you're presenting.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

@Cave Diver: I'd be happy to answer any of your questions by PM.

I really don't think much of some of the people participating in this thread. Their egos and thinly-veiled ethnocentricism are really getting in the way of having any useful kind of conversation. Only some of what Andy is saying is consistent with what I've seen and experienced. I think it's particularly ironic there's a Chinese community living in the Philippines (Andy's backyard) that adheres to many of the traditional Chinese cultural practices to which I previously alluded.

Apparently, Andy believes that his status as a white guy living in Asia qualifies him as a cultural historian/ethnographer. I'd like to encourage him to read up on the Cultural Revolution and the various waves of Chinese diaspora throughout history. I would also like to suggest that he speak to some of the Chinese people in his country about their cultural practices. He's an outsider. He always will be. And that's about the best he'll ever be able to do.

Many people like to view the Cultural Revolution as the effective end of all ancient cultural Chinese tradition. That's not entirely accurate, though. For example, consider the One-Child Policy (OCP) which was instituted by the Chinese government in the late 1970s as a means of population control. It's interesting to note that, since the institution of this policy, the gender ratio in the newborn Chinese population has become rather skewed. (To be fair, males outnumbered females even before OCP, but OCP made the ratio more imbalanced.) Why is this the case? One of the many factors, and I would argue the primary factor, is the propagation/manifestation of Confucian tradition (patrilineal descent) in modern Chinese culture. What we see today is a cultural amalgamation between the old and the new.

With regard to the effort being made to reduce the demand for shark fin in restaurants...
An outsider telling someone that their cultural practices are wrong rarely ends well.
A successful approach will consist of an attitude of cultural sensitivity, educational outreach, and the enlistment of strong advocates within the Chinese community. In Chinese communities outside of mainland China and Taiwan, I really think that this would be a far more successful approach than the heavy-handed tactics of passing legislation. The soup is often served at large celebrations, especially weddings. Educating the younger Chinese generation (the population getting married) about the impact of the shark fin industry on ocean ecology could go a long way. Empowering them to be strong advocates from within the Chinese community against the shark fin trade would be very effective. One example of how successful this approach can be is an organization called Shark Truth based in Vancouver, Canada. I've been following their efforts for a couple of years now. The Vancouver Sun did a nice article on the status of their efforts recently. Powerful stuff.

 

[Shasta_man]

It doesn't take any explanation to tell people how terrible this is. The most ignorant person in the world is capable of understanding what a terrible thing this is without it being explained to them. They choose to act ignorant. And now to hear that the soup tastes like nothing... I would say unbelieveable, but I know it is believeable because people are this stupid and callous.

 

[DevonDiver]

I really don't think much of some of the people participating in this thread. Their egos and thinly-veiled ethnocentricism are really getting in the way of having any useful kind of conversation.

Again, playing the 'race card' to discredit someone's views is quite pathetic.

I took the time and effort to write an article that illustrated my observations. You made some unsubstantiated, content-less, negative remarks in disagreement. What conversation was there?

You made a good effort at giving the illusion you knew something about the subject.... but sadly, no-one was fooled.

Only some of what Andy is saying is consistent with what I've seen and experienced.

Which means what? You live where?

I think it's particularly ironic there's a Chinese community living in the Philippines (Andy's backyard) that adheres to many of the traditional Chinese cultural practices to which I previously alluded.

Question for those with particular low levels of insight... why do you think I live here in the Philippines?

You think there's any chance that I may have close, personal connections with the Asian community? Maybe family connections?

and btw... you haven't "alluded" to any traditional Chinese cultural practices... you've hinted that you know something about them... but not ventured to actually state what they are... or how they apply to this thread. A very unsubtle way of trying to garner some credibility as a commentator on this topic... without actually demonstrating any relevant knowledge. Congrats. 0/10.

Apparently, Andy believes that his status as a white guy living in Asia qualifies him as a cultural historian/ethnographer.

Then you'd be ignorant to try and presume anything about me.

"white guy"... really? come on..... racism works both ways....

What makes me feel 'qualified' to comment is my personal experiences and insights living here... plus my honours degree in history/politics... plus several years running a Civil Affairs team.

He's an outsider. He always will be. And that's about the best he'll ever be able to do.

Again.... this is a very cheap, pathetic excuse for a refutation to my article.

Why don't you attempt to refute some of my observations, rather than the colour of my skin?

Many people like to view the Cultural Revolution as the effective end of all ancient cultural Chinese tradition. That's not entirely accurate, though. For example, consider the One-Child Policy (OCP) which was instituted by the Chinese government in the late 1970s as a means of population control. It's interesting to note that, since the institution of this policy, the gender ratio in the newborn Chinese population has become rather skewed. (To be fair, males outnumbered females even before OCP, but OCP made the ratio more imbalanced.) Why is this the case? One of the many factors, and I would argue the primary factor, is the propagation/manifestation of Confucian tradition (patrilineal descent) in modern Chinese culture. What we see today is a cultural amalgamation between the old and the new.

Absolutely irrelevant. Demonstrates nothing except an inability to source relevant material to the discussion at hand.

With regard to the effort being made to reduce the demand for shark fin in restaurants...
An outsider telling someone that their cultural practices are wrong rarely ends well.

Who cares? They'll either listen and act, or they'll ignore the matter to save face.

Either way... they won't be eating [-]expensive chicken broth[/-] shark fin soup in a decade... will they?

A successful approach will consist of an attitude of cultural sensitivity, educational outreach, and the enlistment of strong advocates within the Chinese community. In Chinese communities outside of mainland China and Taiwan, I really think that this would be a far more successful approach than the heavy-handed tactics of passing legislation.

Given the timescales involved and the speed of shark population decline....

Successful in what?

Saving face and avoiding embarrassment by offering an alternative to admitting greed and idiocy? Yes.

Saving sharks from extinction? No.

Educating the younger Chinese generation (the population getting married) about the impact of the shark fin industry on ocean ecology could go a long way.

Yeah.. they'll know all about it... by the time the many of the shark species are extinct.

 

[iztok]

I really don't think much of some of the people participating in this thread. Their egos and thinly-veiled ethnocentricism are really getting in the way of having any useful kind of conversation.

You provided just ad hominem attack and nothing substantial to correct what DevonDiver was saying. You can't just say "he is white guy thus his info doesn't count" nor you can say "he is wrong" w/o providing counter arguments or better explanations for the state of affairs.

On the topic of "culturally sensitive approach". Who cares? Shark population is rapidly declining and we don't have time to mess with PC crap. Straight up truth will either work or not, either way shark fin eaters will be out of their "cultural food" very soon. Question only remains if sharks will still be there after they stop eating shark fin soup or not.

 

[DevonDiver]

On the topic of "culturally sensitive approach".

There's really no need for a culturally sensitive approach. China and Taiwan don't have large shark populations within their national waters. Most of the shark fins eaten are taken from international waters, or the national waters of other countries. If the rest of the world bans shark finning and shark fin exports from their waters and borders....and if similar measures are taken to protect international waters...then the problem ends.

If this was about what China/Taiwan were doing to their own national waters... who'd care?

When a neighbours' dog craps in your back yard... it's them who has to be sensitive to your feelings.

 

[Mike]

Decimating any animal population world wide based on cultural heritage is not acceptable and is not justifiable in any way. It's time for China to wake up and grow up as a culture.

 

[boulderjohn]

Last year there was a thread on ScubaBoard that talked about the illegal slaughter of some bull sharks off of the Yucatan. As you might guess, the SB posters were outraged. The posts included some links to news coverage of the incident. If you followed those links, though, you got an impression quite different from the SB thread. Each one had what is now typical of news stories these days--posts from people commenting on the news. In the ones I saw, there was not a single "pro shark" posting. They were all of the "the only good shark is a dead shark" mentality. I would guess from the news sources and their assumed readership that the people posting were predominately Anglo.

Before we go pointing fingers at any ethnic culture and talk about the need to educate them, perhaps we should realize the extent to which the "who cares about sharks?" mentality pervades all ethnic cultures. In this regard, there are only two cultures. One is the community that understands the critical importance of sharks to the world ecosystem and our overall world health and the other is the community that hopes they all get killed as soon possible.

Any guesses on where the average citizen of the world stands in that split?

 

[mikemill]

Any guesses on where the average citizen of the world stands in that split?

Indifferent

 

[DevonDiver]

Any guesses on where the average citizen of the world stands in that split?

I agree with your sentiments. The Ramsey documentary is possibly a big leap forwards. Whilst the 'average citizen of the world' might not come into contact with his documentary - he is a very leading opinion-former and trend-setter within the restaurant and culinary communities. If he can start to influence and educate those communities, then the issue of supply, rather than demand, might have an impact.

Here's hoping...