Halcyon & Santi's policy: we perform drysuit repairs "even without prior approval"

[Stoo]

As an aside, when I got my suit, it had the Flexsole boots, but they were way too small, and too thin. I had them replaced with the "standard boot" which a 6mm crushed neoprene covered with rubber... looks like a rubber boot. It's what I am used to with the Vikings I normally dive.

These are ugly, but super warm and far more durable than the Flexsoles I suspect.

 

[Effervescent]

If the boots were leaking due to "wear and tear" then they wouldn't be covered. Was the total charge from them $400? The reason I ask is that there is NO WAY that $400 would cover the cost to replace boots AND the zipper. Up here, a zipper replacement is $500 - $600 alone.

Are you sure the $400 charge wasn't to replace the boots? That's not an outrageous amount for that work I wouldn't think.

And if Halcyon reversed the charge, why is there a dispute with the cc company? The credit should show up on the next statement...

Maybe I'm a dope, but something sounds goofy~ ;-)

Yes, the boots had "wear and tear". However, the boots started to have issues during the first couple months and there are apparently many problems with these boots because they are low quality imports from China according to Gamble who has seen many of these show up to his shop.

Because of the boots were worn, I called Halcyon and Extreme Exposure twice to confirm that they would still be covered. I even gave them the exact purchase date since I pulled it up from my credit card statement.

If Halcyon and Extreme Exposure told me that the boot replacement wouldn't be covered by warranty, I would have had Gamble change out the boots because the suit was already at his shop and I trust him to do the work. The only reason why my suit was at Halcyon in the first place is because I confirmed twice by phone. I made the mistake of not having this in writing over email.

Yes, the unauthorized zipper repair was $400 by itself. I asked them to break this cost out separately to be able to dispute the charge.

No, Halcyon has not reversed the charge. I had to start a dispute because I wouldn't have gotten my suit back without paying the bill. My suit was basically held hostage by Halcyon until I paid the bill.

 

[Stoo]

Thanks for the clarification... So I will join the chorus and say "That sucks"...

SANTI has some PR issues to deal with. While I love my suit, it has never truly been dry. The Scitec neck ring came unstuck last week in the middle of a two week dive trip, completely flooding the suit and damn near drowning me. (Ok that's a lie, but I was glad for my jumbo wing, or I would have had to walk along the bottom of the lake to the boat ramp to get out... which was six miles of 150' deep water away!

I am sending the suit back this week to have the neck fixed and hopefully, they will be able to address what I believe are leaking seams.

In fairness, the Halcyon rep here in Canada has been very responsive even going so far as to suggest that they might replace the suit at one point, although he has backed off of that.

Given your experience, I will include a letter with my suit specifically stating that they are not to do anything requiring money from me, without authorization.

Good luck with your fight.

 

[Effervescent]

Thanks for the clarification... So I will join the chorus and say "That sucks"...

SANTI has some PR issues to deal with. While I love my suit, it has never truly been dry. The Scitec neck ring came unstuck last week in the middle of a two week dive trip, completely flooding the suit and damn near drowning me. (Ok that's a lie, but I was glad for my jumbo wing, or I would have had to walk along the bottom of the lake to the boat ramp to get out... which was six miles of 150' deep water away!

I am sending the suit back this week to have the neck fixed and hopefully, they will be able to address what I believe are leaking seams.

In fairness, the Halcyon rep here in Canada has been very responsive even going so far as to suggest that they might replace the suit at one point, although he has backed off of that.

Given your experience, I will include a letter with my suit specifically stating that they are not to do anything requiring money from me, without authorization.

Good luck with your fight.

Thanks. Yes, SANTI and Halcyon definitely have some PR issues to deal with. I have been burned so much by this company. If I purchase a customized suit that costs over $3k, then I don't expect it to fit someone that is twice my size and I certainty don't expect this type of customer service. This issue finally got fixed after a couple of months but not before I was asked: "Did you wear a padded bra during your drysuit fitting?" Apparently, sexist comments are free!

 

[stuartv]

a friend who purchased the drysuit around the same time I did told me that he recently got his boots replaced under warranty. I called Halcyon and Extreme Exposure twice to make sure that the boot would be covered under warranty. I even gave them the exact purchase date.
...

Once my drysuit was with Halcyon, they told me that they misunderstood the Santi's warranty policy and the boots wouldn't be covered.

First, if your friend has the same suit, purchased around the same time, and his boots were replaced under warranty, why were your boots not covered under warranty?

Second, after confirming with H/EE twice, to then be told, once they had the suit, that the boots were not covered would have been the end of it, for me - diving season or not. I would have asked for them to either replace the boots at no charge, AS THEY TOLD ME THEY WOULD before I had the suit delivered to them, or send the suit back to me (or Gamble) at no charge to me.

In other words, they never would have gotten my credit card number in the first place.

I agree with Stoo, though. The story is pretty confusing regarding them saying they would not charge and then having to fight with the CC company. Did H/EE not honor their commitment to issue a refund?

 

[Lorenzoid]

As an aside, when I got my suit, it had the Flexsole boots, but they were way too small, and too thin. I had them replaced with the "standard boot" which a 6mm crushed neoprene covered with rubber... looks like a rubber boot. It's what I am used to with the Vikings I normally dive.

These are ugly, but super warm and far more durable than the Flexsoles I suspect.

As an aside, when ordering my suit I wanted the Flexsole boots with which Santi's website clearly says the EMotion is "equipped." When my dealer (not EE) asked if I wanted "boots or socks," I replied "boots," thinking (quite reasonably) that's what EMotions are "equipped" with unless one requests socks instead. However, in the dealer's mind, "boots" meant those heavy rubber boots. You can imagine my surprise when I received a suit that didn't have Flexsole boots. I didn't even know those rubber boots existed until the dealer pointed me to an "Accessories" page on Santi's website. After many emails back and forth over the course of something like six months, the dealer offered to pay half the cost of replacing the boots, and I accepted because I just wanted to put this behind me.

Those heavy rubber boots are impossible to do a good frog kick in, as you can't flex your ankles.

 

[Effervescent]

First, if your friend has the same suit, purchased around the same time, and his boots were replaced under warranty, why were your boots not covered under warranty?

Second, after confirming with H/EE twice, to then be told, once they had the suit, that the boots were not covered would have been the end of it, for me - diving season or not. I would have asked for them to either replace the boots at no charge, AS THEY TOLD ME THEY WOULD before I had the suit delivered to them, or send the suit back to me (or Gamble) at no charge to me.

In other words, they never would have gotten my credit card number in the first place.

I agree with Stoo, though. The story is pretty confusing regarding them saying they would not charge and then having to fight with the CC company. Did H/EE not honor their commitment to issue a refund?

I am not clear why my boots were not covered under warranty but his were. They had my drysuit for 8 days before they were able to solve the warranty issue with Santi. I still don't understand why it took 8 days to contact Santi in Poland.

At that point, I was anxious to get my suit back as soon as possible and I caved and accepted the charge. Perhaps I should have stuck to my ground but (1) I didn't have the proof in writing since they were conversations on the phone and (2) I was honestly just willing to pay to get my suit back as fast as possible. If I had known that they were going be wrong about the warranty or it was going to take 6 weeks to repair, I would have had Gamble replace my boots instead.

I paid for the entire bill (including the zipper) because Halcyon was not going to release my drysuit if I didn't pay. Also, I wasn't sure what Halcyon was going to do with my suit if I didn't pay the full bill. I already witnessed their unethical business practices and I was afraid that they would do something even more drastic. This is why I am disputing the charge with my credit card company now. Halcyon could alternatively send me a new bill without the zipper and we can drop the dispute on the old charges but they haven't done so.

 

[Stoo]

Those heavy rubber boots are impossible to do a good frog kick in, as you can't flex your ankles.

Maybe that's why I look like an injured duck when I swim. Good thing that I am usually the guy behind the camera... ;-)

To be honest, these types of boots are all I've ever known, and I don't have any problem with them at all. Just what your used too. They are very warm though... Maybe that's of more benefit here in the Great Lakes than it is down where you are...

 

[James R]

My primary concern is that their official policy is to perform drysuit repairs without asking for prior approval. Even repairs that cost hundreds of dollars do not require approval. I do not think that this is an acceptable business practice.

Completely agree with this part. I guess I didn't make that clear earlier. No way this is okay.

 

[Stoo]

Completely agree with this part. I guess I didn't make that clear earlier. No way this is okay.

It's not like email and phones don't exist. I can understand a minor thing, but $400 is ridiculous...