Have you ever done anything on a dive that you KNEW you weren't supposed to?

[fjpatrum]

Well lets all be honest here, we have all at one point or another dove beyond the scope of our training. It doesnt matter if it is as simple as diving deeper than your experience level should allow, or if you decide to do a wreck/cave penetration. Either way you are putting your life in your own hands.

That being said, all of these "Specialty" certs that people feel that Must be done before doing a certain dive.........Do you honestly think that the pioneers of that specialty had any prior training? Heck no they didnt, they said to themselves, " i bet there's some cool stuff in that (add specialty here)'. And then others followed thier path. Unfortunately Darwin always show up and kills the idiot that doesnt respect the environment that they are in and ends up with a toe tag...........thus leading to the 'Specialty" certification course. I promise you this......If nobody had ever died in a wreck, cave, or diving deep, there would be no "Specialty" certification for them.

So in short, Yes I have done thing that I'm not "Supposed to do", however I am a safety concious person, and dont stick myself in hairy situations while doing so.

Maybe this is a little antagonistic, but any time you dive you're taking your life into your own hands. It doesn't matter whether you're diving beyond your training or within it. That said, I agree 100% with everything you've said.

I have never done anything "beyond my training" (yet). I have dove deeper than "recommended" but the OW cert, like it or not, is supposed to prepare you to dive to recreational limits. That isn't 60 feet. My training covered how to dive to depth and at least discussed narc symptoms and air planning (cursorily included the rule of thirds). I haven't been narced yet, but I know what to expect and what I SHOULD do when it happens. I won't know what I WILL do until I actually experience it for myself, by taking my life into my own hands (again).

 

[Bob DBF]

That being said, all of these "Specialty" certs that people feel that Must be done before doing a certain dive.........Do you honestly think that the pioneers of that specialty had any prior training? Heck no they didnt, they said to themselves, " i bet there's some cool stuff in that (add specialty here)'. And then others followed thier path. Unfortunately Darwin always show up and kills the idiot that doesnt respect the environment that they are in and ends up with a toe tag...........thus leading to the 'Specialty" certification course. I promise you this......If nobody had ever died in a wreck, cave, or diving deep, there would be no "Specialty" certification for them.

It seems you equate training with taking a class from an instructor and recieving a card. If you think the pioneers of SCUBA did not train, then where did all this information come from to make up these classes? There is is a difference between carefully and logicly expanding the boundaries of diving and blindly doing what you want. The former has given us the diving knowledge we have now and the latter died then, and still dies now with their specialty cards.

I dove for many years without certification, but none without training. None of the few divers I started with died in the water, and we did have some moments.

Cards are driven as much, if not more, by liability mitigation and profit than diver education. 4 dives makes you a wreck diver?

I have done plenty of stupid s**t both in and out of the water, the trick is risk management and not relying on blind luck, although I will take blind luck if it presents itself.



Bob
-----------------------------------
A man's got to know his limitations.
Harry Callahan

I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

 

[DaleC]

Did my first intentional solo dive on dive 21 and continued on after that. I had previously been mixed alpine climbing for 20 years solo and had taught myself to climb, ice climb, ski,
snowboard, telemark and back country CC ski, all of which I did solo along with trail running, extended wilderness back packing and canoeing.
I pretty well knew what I was doing, approached it the same way I approached all those other things (intentionally, methodically, gradually) and would do it the same way again.

At the time I knew what I was doing might very well bite me in the a$$ (no delusions of immortality) but so might cancer or a MI. In fact, I'm sure something will eventually. I prefer to dictate the terms of my existence and not have them dictated to me (as far as I can). It is part of my core character to pursue activities in this fashion and if I didn't I probably wouldn't be who I am otherwise.

I didn't tell my instructor (who owned the LDS) for a while because I was afraid he would not fill my tanks.

 

[Rooster In Ohio]

Funny, I guess I never viewed the extension of a within-profile dive though buddy breathing as a bad thing. We all have different SAC rates but often carry the same volume of air (especially in a travel situation). Case in point - on our last dive in COZ, the men dove HP steel 120s and my wife dove a steel 100. I am a really big guy and my wife is petite. I have a pretty good SAC rate (DMs are always checking my air assuming I will use the most - I often use the least) but my wife is an absolute air hog. Both my wife and one of the other divers (a professed DM from California, but I didn't ask to see his cards!!) spent a fair amount of time on the DM's octo so that the remaining two of us could extend our dive. All of us surfaced with more than 500 psi - I surfaced with 1400 (forced to the surface by time/computer). I guess I look at air collectively - it is "our" air not my or your air, and if we can cross-load through buddy breathing, why not? Is there something written that says this is wrong?

I am curious and look forward to comments, my flame suit is fully zipped!

S/F,

db

 

[Hank49]

I really appreciate people listing the things they've done that they weren't supposed to do. But what I would really like to hear is how you convinced yourself that it was okay . . . if other divers are to learn anything from what we have done, they have to recognize the syndrome of "I know I'm not supposed to, but . . . "

In my case, it was just a quick reaction to recover the fish and my gear. I didn't really stop and think it through and I never anticipated that the fish was holed up so deep and tangled back in the little cave. But once I was down and even saw that it wasn't so easy to get the fish out, I still wasn't going back up....and it could have snowballed.
That's what really can get one into trouble. Better to stop, talk it over with my buddy (in this case my son) and do a team plan.

 

[Guba]

Does diving to the gate at Vortex Springs with only rescue diver cert and "standard" equipment count?

I'm not saying I've DONE that...I just want to know whether that would be considered an appropriate example for this thread or not.

: )

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I really appreciate people listing the things they've done that they weren't supposed to do. But what I would really like to hear is how you convinced yourself that it was okay . . . if other divers are to learn anything from what we have done, they have to recognize the syndrome of "I know I'm not supposed to, but . . . "

In my case, it never occurred to me that it wouldn't be OK ... or that anything would be wrong with it. After all, I'd done almost 50 dives up that point without a problem ... so why would I have one now?

It was a classic case of not knowing what I didn't know.

Looking back, within my dives between 50 and 150 I took several risks I'd never take today ... despite all the experience and training I've had since then.

Now, I know better ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[tomfcrist]

Maybe this is a little antagonistic, but any time you dive you're taking your life into your own hands. It doesn't matter whether you're diving beyond your training or within it. That said, I agree 100% with everything you've said.

I have never done anything "beyond my training" (yet). I have dove deeper than "recommended" but the OW cert, like it or not, is supposed to prepare you to dive to recreational limits. That isn't 60 feet. My training covered how to dive to depth and at least discussed narc symptoms and air planning (cursorily included the rule of thirds). I haven't been narced yet, but I know what to expect and what I SHOULD do when it happens. I won't know what I WILL do until I actually experience it for myself, by taking my life into my own hands (again).

I am very well aware that we take our lives in our own hands on every dive, the point i was trying to make is that the inherent risk is obviously higher if you havent had the training to prepare you for the type of diving you wish to do. That is not saying that you will or will not encounter a serious problem, just that if one occurs that you have never eperianced before or trained for you will be up a creek without a paddle. As long as you are willing to assume that risk, you are doing nothing more than Jacques Cousteau or any other pioneer did.

---------- Post added at 12:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 PM ----------

It seems you equate training with taking a class from an instructor and recieving a card. If you think the pioneers of SCUBA did not train, then where did all this information come from to make up these classes? There is is a difference between carefully and logicly expanding the boundaries of diving and blindly doing what you want. The former has given us the diving knowledge we have now and the latter died then, and still dies now with their specialty cards.

I dove for many years without certification, but none without training. None of the few divers I started with died in the water, and we did have some moments.

Cards are driven as much, if not more, by liability mitigation and profit than diver education. 4 dives makes you a wreck diver?

I have done plenty of stupid s**t both in and out of the water, the trick is risk management and not relying on blind luck, although I will take blind luck if it presents itself.



Bob
-----------------------------------
A man's got to know his limitations.
Harry Callahan

I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

Well Bob,
The training we currently have is written in the blood and mistakes of the pioneers of the specialty that we are implying. For instance CAVE. The first cave divers had 0 cave training......the training wasnt even considered until people started dying in record numbers inside caves. Maybe not by the pioneers, but by thier followers.

Your notion is that unless you recieve training for a certain specialty you will never be competent to undertake said specialty.......an that is insane. I promise you that the first rebreather divers had no training on rebreathers. They tested and developed based on a system of trial and error. now the unfortunate truth is that with most of the specialties that we are implying, you get very few if any errors. The point is that the pioneers of these activities were either methodical or lucky.....you can decide for yourself which one they were.

I started diving at a very young age, poaching Abalone with my grandfather.....i wasnt certified until 24 and have had a few oh **** moments in the process. That being said i will not chastise an AOW diver for dropping down to 170fsw to see the propeller on a wreck as long as they have a sufficent gas supply and a good head on their shoulders.

Hope this clears up any confusion on my personal beliefs for you.

 

[eternaljonah]

i am not one for taking risks, but have pushed the recommended limits, most of those time i have been aware of the fact that i was going over them, but always in my mind i though i could handle it. often later i realize that as long as all went smoothly it was fine but if some issue would come up will pushing the limit. i would need to be able to handle having the limit pushed even more. i think that when we take risks we are not fully aware of what the risk is at that moment. it may appear smaller than it actually is... dive safely and remember we really are not fish

 

[Krafcheck]

The human desire to push the limits will never go away. Especially if your young. Even older doing something new or relatively new. I didnt start out driving 70mph but one day i took the on ramp to the highway even though safer slower routes exist. Snow skiing i started out on the bunny hill. One day i went over the ledge for the double black diamond. In motocross i didnt start off jumping 100 footers one day i decided to get a handful of throttle. Jacques Cousteau once jumped in the water with the crazy notion he could breath underwater. The Wright brothers thought they could fly. The human spirit and drive will never go away there will just always be casualties along the way. When people die doing what others call stupid like not having the training to do a cave dive or having the training for that matter others will still approach with criticism. Even someone dies doing everything right someone will still say he/she should have never become a scuba diver because its too dangerous. If things have already been said oh well i didnt read all 4 pages because i know its the same dang things that are said when a death happens in the diving community or any community.

Oh and i once dove to 150 feet but could not go any further because the scuba police stopped me. The "scuba police" being my own thoughts and decision. Oh and i more than once I went to the gate at vortex. Its not worth the risk but that first time was a little exciting. but now i know all you will see is wall, wall, sand. Got to love tht human spirit that drives us all.

And on a more fun note i will be at Vortex this monday through thrusday. most likely will be at PC daily for awhile since the high tides are around noon all week with a tidal change greater than a foot. Stop by and say hi and lets do some diving.