Headed to Ginnie Springs this weekend

[Dive-aholic]

So your first visit to 100' was in a cave. Nice...

 

[Hetland]

I never really understand how depth correlates with any sort of diving enjoyment.

First off, you are getting narc'ed (even if you don't recognize it). Second, there are several (at least) therapeutic uses for hyberbaric oxygen therapy, including treatment for chronic pain (I think the jury's still out on that one though). I would think that diving nitrox at 90fsw would qualify for hyperbaric oxygen therapy. I know that physically, I feel more relaxed AND refreshed after a deep dive, even if I'm breathing air but.......

I've had the most FUN on dives shallower than 30 feet.

I get enjoyment from both though. My perfect dive day usually involves two deeper dives and one shallow, but BP kinda forked that up for a while....

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

People are diving deep for hyberbaric oxygen therapy-like reasons? Diving to GET narc'd?



Those are about the most ridiculous reasons to dive I can think of... There are safer, less expensive, less time intensive ways to get the same 'benefits'.

I get enjoyment from both though. My perfect dive day usually involves two deeper dives and one shallow, but BP kinda forked that up for a while....

Your first two dives are deep because of some sort of imagined therapy? or because you're intended destination just happens to be deep?

 

[Hetland]

People are diving deep for hyberbaric oxygen therapy-like reasons? Diving to GET narc'd?

Adrenalin rushes too. Why wouldn't they? This was the question you asked:

I never really understand how depth correlates with any sort of diving enjoyment.

If people are enjoying deep dives more, there are physiological reasons for such.

I just answered your question.

Those are about the most ridiculous reasons to dive I can think of... There are safer, less expensive, less time intensive ways to get the same 'benefits'.

There are safer, less expensive, less time intensive ways to get beer and wings, but some people still go to places like........ Hero's and seem to have a good time doing it. It's the same with every human activity, why should diving be exempt?

Your first two dives are deep because of some sort of imagined therapy? or because you're intended destination just happens to be deep?

Happens to be deep, safer to do deeper dives first. Therapy is icing on the cake. There's nothing imagined about feeling better, and if there is, so be it. I'm not adverse to being susceptible to a placebo effect, but I'd bet money (and I'm not a betting man) that the physiological effects are real.

Are we not allowed to enjoy diving? Are there some dive rules I'm not aware of that require divers to pretend they are not affected by the environment they are in, or the gasses they breathe?

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

They why dive nitrox at all? Lets all go deep on air, sweet narcosis comon at me. Stupid.

I'm saying its a stupid idea to dive deep for those reasons. Anyone DIVING for those reasons, is stupid IMO. Deep, to be deep, is stupid. Lets all go drop in on some sand? Its deep, its gonna be sweet!

Half of safe diving is to counteract any sort of physiological effects, diving for those effects have been proven over and over to be stupid.





Deeper first is arguably not safer, btw.

 

[Hetland]

They why dive nitrox at all? Lets all go deep on air, sweet narcosis comon at me. Stupid.

There are plenty of reasons to dive nitrox that have nothing to do with narcosis. The vast, vast majority of my deeper dives are on nitrox, and I still sometimes notice a difference.

I'm saying its a stupid idea to dive deep for those reasons. Anyone DIVING for those reasons, is stupid IMO.

To get narc'ed? I agree.

Deep, to be deep, is stupid. Lets all go drop in on some sand? Its deep, its gonna be sweet!

Dropping on any sand, anywhere, any depth, for any reason (except treasure of course) is stupid. I agree.

Half of safe diving is to counteract any sort of physiological effects, diving for those effects have been proven over and over to be stupid.

Any sort of physiological effects? I disagree. Otherwise most people wouldn't dive. That awesome feeling you get when you see a shark, or some new critter you've never seen is physiological. You don't get that from seeing a shark in an aquarium, or on television. Part of that, I believe is the environment, and the effects of that environment on the human body. One of the reasons I like diving is because I can exercise without getting hot or sweaty. I could counteract that with a drysuit, but why would I want to? You dive in shorts! Don't you know you could get hypothermia? Even in tropical locations? But you still do it, and I'm betting it's because you like the way it feels, and not because you think it makes you look cool I on the other hand, almost always wear a wetsuit in summer. Not because the water is cold, but to mitigate long term heat loss over multiple dives.

You're not going to eliminate inert gas narcosis with just O2 and Nitrogen at any mix. The best you can do is stick to a safe plan and recognize that those physiological effects are present. Don't believe me? Ask some trimix divers what they think. I'm betting you already know the answer, and probably better than me.

Here's my point: Take two dives, identical in every way, except one is at 90ft and one is at 30ft, and I'd bet the average diver will always say the deeper dive is better. Humans like to explore and press their limits (even if the "limit" exists only in their head). Just the fact that 90 is a larger number than 30 will be enough for most folks to choose the deeper dive, but add to that, a subtle, even imperceptible amount of intoxication, and I just don't see anyone choosing the shallower dive (as long as EVERYTHING else was equal, which in real life we know is impossible).

Deeper first is arguably not safer, btw.

Once it's proven otherwise I'll likely change my planning.

 

[rostato]

Wow, sorry I started an argument.

 

[Hetland]

Wow, sorry I started an argument.

Ha! Sorry we hijacked your thread with our argument.

Bugman and I find it easy to argue over almost anything. It doesn't stop us from eating together at the 'Fests though.

 

[ktomlinson]

Rostato, don't be... That's how forums are, and i for one rather enjoyed reading the thread.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

There are plenty of reasons to dive nitrox that have nothing to do with narcosis. The vast, vast majority of my deeper dives are on nitrox, and I still sometimes notice a difference.

One of the biggest reasons is to keep a clearer head. Its trimix's biggest advantage.

Any sort of physiological effects? I disagree. Otherwise most people wouldn't dive. That awesome feeling you get when you see a shark, or some new critter you've never seen is physiological. You don't get that from seeing a shark in an aquarium, or on television. Part of that, I believe is the environment, and the effects of that environment on the human body. One of the reasons I like diving is because I can exercise without getting hot or sweaty. I could counteract that with a drysuit, but why would I want to? You dive in shorts! Don't you know you could get hypothermia? Even in tropical locations? But you still do it, and I'm betting it's because you like the way it feels, and not because you think it makes you look cool I on the other hand, almost always wear a wetsuit in summer. Not because the water is cold, but to mitigate long term heat loss over multiple dives.

These are not physiological changes based on depth A shark in 15' of water is just as amazing as at 80'. It'd take hours on hours to get hypothermia in the waters I dive shorts in...

Diving deep? You're cutting your dive short, with increased gas consumption, possibly also by staying within NDL times if your not trained for decompression diving.

I like to dive, cutting my dives shorter to reach some magic number is counterproductive. Especially if its something I can view shallower.

You're not going to eliminate inert gas narcosis with just O2 and Nitrogen at any mix. The best you can do is stick to a safe plan and recognize that those physiological effects are present. Don't believe me? Ask some trimix divers what they think. I'm betting you already know the answer, and probably better than me.

We don't negate it completely, but we do the best we can to cut narcosis back as much as possible. Its damn sure not the reason we dive to depth Hitting numbers on a depth gauge is about as exciting as watching the clock tick by.

Here's my point: Take two dives, identical in every way, except one is at 90ft and one is at 30ft, and I'd bet the average diver will always say the deeper dive is better. Humans like to explore and press their limits (even if the "limit" exists only in their head). Just the fact that 90 is a larger number than 30 will be enough for most folks to choose the deeper dive, but add to that, a subtle, even imperceptible amount of intoxication, and I just don't see anyone choosing the shallower dive (as long as EVERYTHING else was equal, which in real life we know is impossible).

My point is... after burning an AL80 for two hours on the 30' dive. I'm going to have A MUCH better understanding of what I was looking at than the diver at 90'. Numbers? How does 120 minutes sound compared to 40 minutes?

I think you're making an incredibly incorrect generalization about 'most folks'. I think people would much more likely take 3x the bottom time, 3x the experience, rather than 3x the depth.

I'm not saying there's no reason to go deep. Sometimes what you want to see IS deep(and I'm not talking about the numbers ticking by on your depth gauge). Depth for the sake of depth, is stupid <--no doubt about it.