Horrible Customer Service Experience

[ScubaDocER]

Holes in wings happen. If you've gotten two in such a short time, I'd offer that something in the way you are transporting your gear or setting it up is putting the bladder at risk. I don't think Tobin needs to redesign his wings, as such injuries are not that common. We have, I think, at least five DSS wings, and my pinch flat is the only one we have had.

I apologize in the delay in responding to this post but I did want to make a comment on it. I can appreciate that things can happen to any piece of dive equipment. I also believe that it is reasonable for a company to stand behind its work. The first bladder was used quite a bit. I took it to Fiji, Jamaica, and on several training dives. When it tore, I did not complain because it had been through what I would consider reasonable wear and tear. There was and is no complaint regarding that repair. The complaint comes when a wing that was not used develops a "pinch" the very first dive upon which it is used. The very first one. Nothing harder than a scuba shirt was placed on it.

I'll give you an example of what I consider good customer service. A few months ago I bought an Aeris watch. One the first dive, I noticed it read 6 feet below my actual depth. I thought it odd and sent it back to the shop for repair. This is what they did not do. They did not assume I dropped it, banged it, put heavy weights on it, or broke it. They did not ask me how many watches I had owned previously. They did not tell me that 10 times out of 10 they could take a watch down to depth and never have a false reading. What they did do is take the watch back, repair it, and ship it back to me at no cost to me.

It is not hard to develop an cultivate positive relationships with customers that serve. It just takes listening to them.

 

[ScubaDocER]

Problem is the issue has passed by. The OP did not come on here until after the final fix had been done and paid for (or is my understanding at least). Also, you are making the incorrect assumption that the OP would have considered any settlement amicable unless it was completely free. To call a spade a spade, $50 is damn cheap. If that was not good enough then I doubt $25 would have either (but then only the OP knows that for sure).

The fix was not done the second time. I paid for shipping both ways both times it was sent, and paid for the first repair. I did not post until I had finished my 2nd conversation with DSS regarding the second repair.

 

[ScubaDocER]

We date code our bladders. The OP originally purchased the wings in early 2010. He first returned the wing about 2 months ago. We replaced the bladder with a new bladder with a 2011 date code. After the OP had possession of the wing for 2 months he again returned it with another obvious pinch flat. The damaged bladder had the 2011 date code. The damage is *exactly* where one would expect it to be if a back plate was dropped on the wing.

The suggestion is that the only thing that could have injured the bladder is a dropped back plate. In 11 years of dealing with wings I have never dropped a back plate on my wings. I think I would know if I had prior to this dive. Given that there it was not in contact with the back plate prior to its first use I find this logic highly flawed.

To suggest that we changed his original (2010 bladder) with a new 2011 bladder and somehow pinched it before we returned it to him, or replaced his bladder with a damaged 2011 bladder is really a stretch.

Not a stretch at all if the wing/bladder was not used prior to the dive. That's like trying on a sock right after you got it out of the wrapper and there's a hole in the big toe. Did you do it?

If we had indeed returned a wing with a hole in it why does it take 2 months for this to be discovered?

I returned it after it was used for the first time. It was returned 2 days after I returned from Cozumel. If I had discovered it sooner, it would have been returned sooner. Just as I sent it back to you when I discovered the first injury to the bladder. Trying to blame the customer at every turn just does not sound like a good business practice.

We test all wings, new and repaired before shipment. We *know* how to package a wing to prevent damage in shipment, and this wing was returned by itself, no back plate was even in the same box.

And I *know* how to unpack a wing, place it in a suitcase, and ship it without incurring a *pinch* in it. It's not that complicated of a task.

Something is happening to these wings *after* they leave DSS, and throwing free parts at the problem won't solve it until that *something* is changed.

Again, an assumption. It was not proven to be faulty until it was used on its first dive. And nothing was wrong with the wing, it was the bladder that was not working. That something may be the way it was installed.

All wings suffer pinch flats. If you doubt this then why does every reputable wing offer replacement bladders for sale?

There are multiple reasons to replace a bladder that have nothing to do with pinch flats. You replaced my first one that had no such damage.

 

[ScubaDocER]

I inquired about the number of wings the OP had, 2 identical singles wings and 2 identical doubles wings + some other unidentified wings for one simple reason, it would be unusual for one diver to need duplicates. Unusual, but not impossible, we do have customers that maintain a set of gear at home, and second set at a vacation home.

It is actually not that unusual for divers to own more that one set of wings. I know of several cave divers own one more that one. Often for Cave diving and for recreational diving. The are wings that I have were purchased over an 11 year time period. By the way, you did not sell me 2 identical sets of wings. One was for a 30lb lift, the other was for a 26 lbs lift (singles). The 2nd one was for my wife. The doubles winds were of different sizes as well.

Not wanting to assume anything, I inquired. Apparently the OP was not the only diver with access to the wings in question.

Define what you mean by access. If you are asking about who uses the wing other than me and that is no one. If you are asking who else handles my wings, that would be my wife when she put them in the suitcase. She assures me she did not drop a back plate on it.

 

[ScubaDocER]

We of course attempted to resolve the matter privately. It was the OP who choose to "go public"

After the 2nd conversation with someone from DSS regarding this issue I was told that there was no other option other than for me to pay for a new bladder. It was at that time that I decided to post my opinions on the transaction.

I've stated this several times already, but once again;

Throwing free parts at the problem would do nothing to solve it if the user is still convinced he is doing nothing wrong.

Nor will continuing to blame the customer if they feel they have done nothing wrong. You continue to pursue this as if a person with a concern regarding your product is at fault. It smacks of an elitist perspective. No one is asking you to throw free parts at anyone. But standing behind the quality of the product you produce is at a minimum professional.

True customer service IMO is actually solving the problem long term, so the customer is not repeatedly without operable gear.

There you go again. The customer. The customer. At no point is there ever any acknowledgment whatsoever that the company...the company may be at fault. This is atrocious customer service.

 

[ScubaDocER]

I can see that the OP is bummed because they just replaced one bladder and now the replacement has a problem. However, the OP admitted that they failed to properly inspect it before using it whereas the mfg stated they did before shipping it.

The injury to the bladder was in a location that I could not have possibly seen. When I received the new bladder, I inflated the wing and saw no problems. I did not disassemble the wing to inspect the bladder as it connected to the OPV from the inside. Once I noticed that the wing did not hold air on my trip, I took it home and checked it in the pool. Even normally inflated, there was no leak. Only when it was fully inflated did I notice air escaping from the area around the OPV. That's when I returned it for repair.

 

[ScubaDocER]

We have done exactly that. We did inspect the wing. We did communicate our findings to the OP. I do have pictures of the damaged bladder with respect to an outline of the plate. Do you really think the OP, who continues to assert that he is 100% certain that he is not responsible, would accept this as proof of anything?

Let's see, I'll post them in about an hour when I get to the shop.

Tobin

Placing the bladder next to a back plate will not convince me that I dropped a back plate on my wing. I am just as certain of my position as you seem to be of yours. I cannot be 100% certain of anything. Neither can you.

 

[vladimir]

I fail to see how this is clear at all. I can appreciate that that is an educated assumption, but not clear. There was damage to the bladder. That much I think is agreed upon. The issue to me is that it is not clear when or how the damage occurred. I know what I did with the wing. I have described it earlier. Merely placing the wing on the tank should not "pinch" the bladder. That is the extent of its contact with anything solid. The assumptions you have made are not indeed facts.

What is your theory of Deep Sea Supply's responsibility? It seems to be, "I didn't pinch it, so it must be their fault." But what would an objective observer think? He would discount your assurances about the wing's treatment in your care--they are not reasonably verifiable, even by you. He would look at the nature of the damage--an objective fact. He would look for evidence of a manufacturing defect in new bladders of the same type and batch. And he would ask whether the damage in your wing could reasonably be caused by a manufacturing defect.

I'll give you an example of what I consider good customer service. A few months ago I bought an Aeris watch. One the first dive, I noticed it read 6 feet below my actual depth. I thought it odd and sent it back to the shop for repair. This is what they did not do. They did not assume I dropped it, banged it, put heavy weights on it, or broke it. They did not ask me how many watches I had owned previously. They did not tell me that 10 times out of 10 they could take a watch down to depth and never have a false reading. What they did do is take the watch back, repair it, and ship it back to me at no cost to me.

It is not hard to develop an cultivate positive relationships with customers that serve. It just takes listening to them.

Is that a failure mode that a customer could have caused by mistreatment? It may be a known defect to them. Either way, you seem to be arguing that other manufacturers have a "customer is always right" policy, so DSS should too. It is really a cost/benefit analysis that a company has to do--weighing an occasional public relations fiasco versus the cost of dispensing free repairs or equipment. But that is a separate question from what is fair or right.

 

[buddhasummer]

I apologize in the delay in responding to this post but I did want to make a comment on it. I can appreciate that things can happen to any piece of dive equipment. I also believe that it is reasonable for a company to stand behind its work. The first bladder was used quite a bit. I took it to Fiji, Jamaica, and on several training dives. When it tore, I did not complain because it had been through what I would consider reasonable wear and tear. There was and is no complaint regarding that repair. The complaint comes when a wing that was not used develops a "pinch" the very first dive upon which it is used. The very first one. Nothing harder than a scuba shirt was placed on it.

I'll give you an example of what I consider good customer service. A few months ago I bought an Aeris watch. One the first dive, I noticed it read 6 feet below my actual depth. I thought it odd and sent it back to the shop for repair. This is what they did not do. They did not assume I dropped it, banged it, put heavy weights on it, or broke it. They did not ask me how many watches I had owned previously. They did not tell me that 10 times out of 10 they could take a watch down to depth and never have a false reading. What they did do is take the watch back, repair it, and ship it back to me at no cost to me.

It is not hard to develop an cultivate positive relationships with customers that serve. It just takes listening to them.

Apples and oranges here I think, if your computer had visible signs of damage I would imagine things may have turned out different.

 

[Blackwood]

Hypothetically, If this pinch flat had actually been the first failure (ie the tear never occurred), would you still feel this to be poor customer service?

Two unrelated failures in short order certainly sucks, but I fall short of agreeing with your position about the level of customer service. It seems to me that DSS went out of its way, including offering a replacement bladder at a financial loss.

Full disclosure, I count Tobin as a friend. However I have no dog in this fight, and don't believe that relationship is clouding my vision.