Horse beating continues: Diver in Cozumel REFUSES to remove gloves and knife.

[deepstops]

deepstops

There is conflicting info regarding this these rules at:

Under Pressure Divers - Cozumel Dive Sites

That why I'm curious if the rules have changed.

That's clearly that particular dive shop's version of the rules. They made at least one glaring omission in their version regarding spearing and conveniently changed the ones about gloves and knives.

 

[Red_5]

banning of objects never does anything but make things difficult for (or criminals out of) the usually law abiding people.



I've had several friends who have Raynauds they have to wear gloves quite often. Can you tell who these people are just by looking at them? no. What about other not so common issues?


government micromanagement is not the answer!



this post in no way condones people who are ******** and/or show no respect to others or the environment around them.

 

[ScubaSteve]

But it is being said here that Gov't micromanaging is the only answer. I am so confused. Either way, it is apparent that the DM's are not being effective because many people still carry their knives.....I did and quite frankly 4 years ago I was not even told I could not which is why I never thought twice about it. So perhaps they should have police on every boat frisking every diver before they roll off the boat. Maybe that is what these guys want. 99.9% of the people that carry a knife never deploy it if not required to for safety reason or training reasons. Yes this is a number that I made up but I do not believe that most people go around to cut up the reef. You read about people that will crawl all over the reef to get a better shot of a fish.....I saw that in COZ (and many other places as well....not just in COZ) and never saw a DM worrying about that. But it sure is a good thing the photographer did not have a knife to do damage with. *phew*

banning of objects never does anything but make things difficult for (or criminals out of) the usually law abiding people.



I've had several friends who have Raynauds they have to wear gloves quite often. Can you tell who these people are just by looking at them? no. What about other not so common issues?


government micromanagement is not the answer!



this post in no way condones people who are ******** and/or show no respect to others or the environment around them.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Not for Flounder hunting, a knife is better Sorry, I couldnt resist.

While I'm all for killing my own dinner, Hunting is not essential to scuba diving.... I couldn't resist either.. But yeah, those flounders don't hold still well for my scissors either...

 

[jd950]

I tend to think banning gloves and knives is an easy, cheap and ineffective way of protecting the reef, because the kind of people who will grab the corals and cut things with knives will probably do damage anyway or ignore these rules, and instead, the people who get inconvenienced and/or upset are not the ones causing the problems.

That said, I don't wear gloves in the Caribbean and carry a small line cutting "rescue hook" as an emergency cutting tool, instead of shears (personal preference), so I am not inconvenienced by the rules in Coz or Bonaire.

As far as buoyancy checks, I see two problems:

1. I have seen people who have no regard for the health of the reef and many (most, perhaps) of them have been very experienced divers, including instructors. I don't think buoyancy checks would help either, as these people were capable of avoiding damage if they had cared.

2. Buoyancy checks would identify divers with poor skills, but then what? Tell them they can't dive? Keep them 30' from the reef? Take them only to sandy areas? Make them take a buoyancy course before they can dive? This would cause a tourism backlash that would cause a loss of tourism dollars. I doubt we will see that happen.

The knife/gloves rules are probably silly, but no one asked me first and I don't have a say in how Mexico governs its waters. My feeling is that each of us should follow the rules or choose not to, but if you don't follow them, don't complain if you get hassled or refused a dive by a DM or punished by the the reef police or whatever.

That is kind of how life works.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

You know I said that earlier.. Great point.

I tend to think banning gloves and knives is an easy, cheap and ineffective way of protecting the reef, because the kind of people who will grab the corals and cut things with knives will probably do damage anyway or ignore these rules, and instead, the people who get inconvenienced and/or upset are not the ones causing the problems.

That said, I don't wear gloves in the Caribbean and carry a small line cutting "rescue hook" as an emergency cutting tool, instead of shears (personal preference), so I am not inconvenienced by the rules in Coz or Bonaire.

As far as buoyancy checks, I see two problems:

1. I have seen people who have no regard for the health of the reef and many (most, perhaps) of them have been very experienced divers, including instructors. I don't think buoyancy checks would help either, as these people were capable of avoiding damage if they had cared.

2. Buoyancy checks would identify divers with poor skills, but then what? Tell them they can't dive? Keep them 30' from the reef? Take them only to sandy areas? Make them take a buoyancy course before they can dive? This would cause a tourism backlash that would cause a loss of tourism dollars. I doubt we will see that happen.

The knife/gloves rules are probably silly, but no one asked me first and I don't have a say in how Mexico governs its waters. My feeling is that each of us should follow the rules or choose not to, but if you don't follow them, don't complain if you get hassled or refused a dive by a DM or punished by the the reef police or whatever.

That is kind of how life works.

 

[billindenver]

I tend to think banning gloves and knives is an easy, cheap and ineffective way of protecting the reef, because the kind of people who will grab the corals and cut things with knives will probably do damage anyway or ignore these rules, and instead, the people who get inconvenienced and/or upset are not the ones causing the problems.

That said, I don't wear gloves in the Caribbean and carry a small line cutting "rescue hook" as an emergency cutting tool, instead of shears (personal preference), so I am not inconvenienced by the rules in Coz or Bonaire.

As far as buoyancy checks, I see two problems:

1. I have seen people who have no regard for the health of the reef and many (most, perhaps) of them have been very experienced divers, including instructors. I don't think buoyancy checks would help either, as these people were capable of avoiding damage if they had cared.

2. Buoyancy checks would identify divers with poor skills, but then what? Tell them they can't dive? Keep them 30' from the reef? Take them only to sandy areas? Make them take a buoyancy course before they can dive? This would cause a tourism backlash that would cause a loss of tourism dollars. I doubt we will see that happen.

The knife/gloves rules are probably silly, but no one asked me first and I don't have a say in how Mexico governs its waters. My feeling is that each of us should follow the rules or choose not to, but if you don't follow them, don't complain if you get hassled or refused a dive by a DM or punished by the the reef police or whatever.

That is kind of how life works.

You could not be more wrong if you tried. It has always been true that if someone is even considering breaking a rule...they immediately lose the responsibility for that action and instead the responsibility falls on the scubaboard rules mafia to enforce it in their own special way. In fact, your suggestion that we each take responsibility for our own actions or medical conditions, which also infers that if it isn't your responsibility you should mind your own faults instead of jumping on others, is ridiculous beyond words. You clearly have not been here very long....stick around...you will learn. Anarchist.

 

[netmage]

You could not be more wrong if you tried. ...

"More wrong? Wrong is an absolute state and not subject to degradation"

 

[billindenver]

"More wrong? Wrong is an absolute state and not subject to degradation"

Oh is that a fact? Ok, if I were wearing gloves in cozumel would I be wrong in doing so? If I then strapped a 2 foot machete to my leg, would I not be more wrong? Ok, if I used that machete to behead a half dozen turtles while wearing non-biodegrable sunscreen, diving a sawtooth profile well into deco, wearing a thong speedo, swam away from the group and intentionally got onto another boat swearing I belonged there...would that not be more wrong? Ok, what if I also pried off a piece of the coral and stuck it in my thong? Surely that would be more wrong than just wearing the gloves. Don't go quoting laws and rules to me sonny...or I'll start talking about the lack of coral in coral springs florida. Cheers!

 

[netmage]

Oh is that a fact? Ok, if I were wearing gloves in cozumel would I be wrong in doing so? If I then strapped a 2 foot machete to my leg, would I not be more wrong? Ok, if I used that machete to behead a half dozen turtles while wearing non-biodegrable sunscreen, diving a sawtooth profile well into deco, wearing a thong speedo, swam away from the group and intentionally got onto another boat swearing I belonged there...would that not be more wrong? Ok, what if I also pried off a piece of the coral and stuck it in my thong? Surely that would be more wrong than just wearing the gloves. Don't go quoting laws and rules to me sonny...or I'll start talking about the lack of coral in coral springs florida. Cheers!

You would still be wrong.... just wrong...