Hoseless Problems

[PurduEE]

It's pretty clear that there really isn't a 'one computer for any type of diving' out there. If the diving that you do is similar to the diving done at Bikini Atoll (stage deco, multi gas, etc.), then the recommendations provided are useful to you. Simply wanting multiple gas support is going to narrow the field pretty rapidly. As far as I know, the Vytec is the only Suunto capable of multiple gases, and I don't believe that Pelagic (genesis, Oceanic, Aeris) has a single multiple gas computer.

The odd thing about his list is that the Vytec seems to be recommended based on the support for multiple gases, while none of the other Suunto's make the minimum list. I would be VERY surprised if the algorithms in say a Cobra are different than a Vytec, which would indicate that if the Vytec makes the list, so should the Cobra (minimum - since no multi-gas). I get the sense that while they say 'proven non-performance history', it's really a 'non-proven performance history'. They don't know if it'll work or not, so don't bring it... Bear in mind also that since most of the recreational computers out there are on the don't bring it list, that leaves most of us needing to rent a computer - which (surpise, surprise!) they rent - but I'm sure that potential profit didn't sway their decisions in the slightest...

If this isn't the kind of diving that you do (probably a good 80% of us), then these recommendations are interesting, but not useful in making a decision about what's the 'best' computer to buy.

 

[MikeW0311]

I agree with all the safety reasons you mention to not use a wireless AI in wreck diving or penetrations, but having reviewed the site for several weeks researching my upcoming computer purchase, I have not read or seen posted examples of the problems you mention ie: wrong information, and problems with receivers. Having a very experienced cave diver working in the LDS, as well as having taken a class instructed by him. I am familiar with his gear,and set up and I understand where he and you (by the sounds of your post) are coming from as a very advanced tech. diver. But to condemn these computers wholesale seems to go against all the experiences posted in this forum.

 

[spike627]

My LSD say not to get a hoseless because it will give me problems
what should I get I been looking at computers for over 2 weeks and I'm going crazy. Should I get Oceanic or suunto , should I get a SPG and a computer that is not wireless air . help!!!

 

[blacknet]

MikeW0311 once bubbled...
I followed the link you suggested, and aside from the extremely arrogant attitude of the author of the information,almost every computer mentioned on this board are "not recommended". Either they have stock in the "recommended" companies or they don't want a large majority of us, truly, recreational divers on their island.

Hello,

No They did their homework. Pull NEDU's computer testing and see how many failed.

Bikini was recomending the nitek-3 BEFORE they was renting them. If you have a question about a computer then email them and ask. There was a big discussion about the cochran computers.

As for AI some people have told me that my cameras strobe will screw them up as well, which I have yet to see happen. Personaly I don't use a computer, I stick with the tried and true bottom timer, slates and paper. I to have never seen posted problems of the wrong receivers, the mentioned wreck penetration. I have seen wrong information on just about all computers.

If hoseless/AI computers presents all these problems then why are they still being made? Why are more and more companies developing their own? Then I have to ask why has no one contacted the manufacture about these flaws?

Ed

 

[MikeW0311]

I searched their site, but could not find the research, please pass along a web site, if you have one. I would really like to read up on the testing. - Thanks

ps

you bring up some excellent questions.

All the divers I have been with using AI and/or hoseless have nothing but good things to say about their computers. There is always a chance of failure, but isn't that true of all SCUBA gear, and isn't that why we practice for these situations.

 

[PurduEE]

blacknet once bubbled...

No They did their homework. Pull NEDU's computer testing and see how many failed.

Bikini was recomending the nitek-3 BEFORE they was renting them. If you have a question about a computer then email them and ask. There was a big discussion about the cochran computers.

Whatever, I still find it hard to believe that Vytec is recommended, but no other Suunto makes the cut. Does anyone have information that states that the Vytec is substantially different in it's algorithm/manufacture than the Cobra or the Vyper. It is true that it is a multiple gas computer, but I don't see anything in that page regarding multiple gases being necessary.. Looks like tanks of regular old compressed air to me. FWIW, I can't find much on the NEDU site other than the ANU list - can you provide a pointer...

In regards to why hoseless are around while they're CLEARLY so dangerous, it's just a case of people spreading a lot of FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt), without a lot of hard fact. These are the same kind of relatively groundless rumours that convince people that they need a PADI cert to dive internationally (since NAUI, SSI, etc. aren't recognized overseas), and that licking envelopes can cause cockroaches eggs in the glue to be deposited in your tongue where they will hatch in your mouth... (please note the sarcasm in this before you reply).

Hoseless computers may fail occassionally - so might an SPG. Is it likely to happen to you? Probably not...

 

[spike627]

Mike what do you know about the suunto Cobra?

 

[newdiverAZ]

from what i read about bikini, it is mixed gas diving. Bottom mix is air for some reason?, and deco is done on surface supplied nitrox, at hang bars at 30, 20, and 10. just what i have read

 

[MikeW0311]

Not too much, just what I have read in their publication,and here on the forum, as well as other web sites. I too am searching for a computer. I 've decided after reading several threads to go with the Oceanic ProVT.

The majority of the folks on this site seem to prefer the Suunto products, they are much higher priced than some of the other products available.

Best wishes in your search.

Mike

 

[frankzeg]

blacknet once bubbled...




Bikini was recomending the nitek-3 BEFORE they was renting them. If you have a question about a computer then email them and ask. There was a big discussion about the cochran computers.


Having used a Nitek 3 I would NOT recommend it- the three gas (no helium) capability is possibly useful but in this day and age of trimix the utility is rapidly vanishing. I have never seen a computer bleat so continuously and annoyingly just about getting wet. It has a teeny tiny display and the user interface is cryptic for anything but the basics. And it is bulky to boot. It also had an incredibly bad habit of switching gas mix just as you submerged- an incredible human factors mistake. I understand the new ones can handle He but the display and interface appear just as crippled.
Get a UWATEC bottomtimer ( or two) and a watch for such deep stuff unless you have an overwhelming gear-addiction and are compelled to buy a VR3 or some such. IN the end you will find the bottom timer approach easier anyway for the tek stuff.
For recreational diving I can recommend a simple NitekC- no air integration but that is not really as useful as you might think. And it is small- it too has a teeny tiny display but also has no pretensions to tek usage outside of having a gage mode. I have used an air integrated Aeris hoseless 750GT and that has done well for hundreds of dives. The link occasionally is temporarily lost underwater but is readily recovered. The link is generally lost not due to multi-path problems in a metal enclosure like a wreck but by the RF opacity of moi! Found switching to a right wrist location with the transmitter on the right side to be superior for link margin. Never had a sync issue. Its shining virtue is a HUGE display - though the priority of size could use some rethinking. I should note that I consider the hoseless feature to be a CONVENIENCE and still have a SPG for ground truth.Also be aware that most transmitters will continue to transmit so long as tank pressure is on the reg- so if you keep even residual pressure in the reg ( like overnight on a boat or some such) this will degrade battery life.
z