How happy are you with today's level of Diver Education?

[JahJahwarrior]

I think modern education is lacking. Classes are done too fast for most divers to learn the skills they need, and students are passed with the mentality of "they know enough not to die, and can learn on their own time," yet students somehow have the idea that their card means they are actually good, safe divers.

I'm also seeing a lot of cave divers at the lower levels who have no regard for the limitations of their certification. The trouble then is, they will point to full cave divers and say "they are staging without a stage card" and "they are scootering without a scooter card" and "there is no cave police" so they go ahead and dive thirds of doubles at intro, and take jumps at intro, and feel justified and safe doing so.

Honestly, most divers scare me.

 

[DCBC]

It seems to me that for the vast majority the answer is no. There are some exceptions.

Training insufficient - 15
Training sufficient - 4
Undecided (It depends upon the Instructor) - 2
No decision made - 4

So I would agree (from this small sample) that the majority do not feel that the current training is sufficient to produce a diver able to dive safely with a buddy, unsupervised by a DM or Instructor (the goal).

Some have made suggestions for training improvement. It has been suggested that course length could help correct this problem and others have suggested an increased number of open-water dives.

What do you think is reasonable in-terms of additional training hours (classroom, pool, open-water)? A new diver will require further experience, but if the goal is for him/her to be able to dive safely with a buddy unsupervised what could make the difference?

 

[Texasdivechick]

I don't feel as though I had the proper skills when I received my OW card. It was only through the process of diving with mentors that I began to really learn. I agree that there should be more OW sessions added to complete certification. I think 8 is a good number. I will also add that I don't think instructors should mix the OW students with AOW students during the check out dives. They should focus on one class at a time, limit the number of students so that everyone gets enough attention, and focus more on buoyancy and equipment. Here's an idea: skip the lesson about snorkles. That will save 30-45 minutes that could be better spent learning other stuff.

 

[*dave*]

What do you think is reasonable in-terms of additional training hours (classroom, pool, open-water)? A new diver will require further experience, but if the goal is for him/her to be able to dive safely with a buddy unsupervised what could make the difference?

I'd say most people can reach the desired level of competency with 20+ hours of class and six OW dives, but that depends on the course content and the student.

One thing I'd point out is that most people coming out of OW have no basis for comparison. It will probably be the best class they ever saw, because it's the only class they've ever seen. Asking new divers about the quality of their course doesn't yield useful information, for the most.

 

[DCBC]

Asking new divers about the quality of their course doesn't yield useful information, for the most.

Thanks Dave; I felt that divers would know that they could use a couple more hours in the pool, a little longer to absorb classroom material and another day of open-water dives (or not). I was just trying to get a feel of what divers felt would be beneficial to them.

 

[Walter]

What do you think is reasonable in-terms of additional training hours (classroom, pool, open-water)?

I like SEI standards.

 

[Diver0001]

What do you think is reasonable in-terms of additional training hours (classroom, pool, open-water)? A new diver will require further experience, but if the goal is for him/her to be able to dive safely with a buddy unsupervised what could make the difference?

That depends too much on the shop, the instructor and the student to say anything relevant about it.

Standards do not force people to short-change customers on quality. They provide a framework for what the student needs to learn. The abuses of that framework (doint things that even the agencies don't intend) are being committed by shops, resorts and instructors, not by agencies. The roll agencies can play in this is to strictly enforce their own quality standards so that entities who look for the loopholes are fished out.

In terms of the minimum that should be added to the course, I would say at least 2 more OW dives with the *student* and not the instructor, planning and leading the dive. I would also welcome a minumum standard of 10 hours of accumulated bottom time for the OW course with a minimum of approximately 1/2 of that time spent neutrally buoyant. That would put a lot of shops out of business but the ones that were left would be producing students that weren't so scary.

Incidentally, the 10 hours of bottom time can easily be achieved without driving up costs if students do the e-learning thing and you can spend your time with them in the water instead of in the classroom. I spend 12 hours on theory that I would gladly bring back to 1/2 of that if people would come prepared so I could spend 6 more hours diving with them.....

R..

 

[*dave*]

10 hours of BT would certainly be nice... But, given the average BT of a new diver is somewhere around :30, that would mean 20 dives and that would drive up cost.

SSI standards dictate no more than 3 training dives per day, so we're now talking about 7 days of checkout dives in my case. With most of my sites requiring a drive of 70-200 miles r/t, I'd lose my ass. As it is, I make about $4.85/hr for teaching an OW course to four students, IF everything goes according to plan.

Incidentally, the 10 hours of bottom time can easily be achieved without driving up costs if students do the e-learning thing and you can spend your time with them in the water instead of in the classroom.
R..

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I am not a big fan of the one weekend PADI classes that I have seen. But some divers still manage to succeed with it, while others might scare the crap out of themselves and never dive again.

I am confused about this kind of statement, mostly made by a specific handful of SB'ers. Where, when and how many "one weekend PADI classes" have you seen?

I have certified a few big wave surfers / breath hold hunters / ocean lifeguards who could have completed the PADI Open Water course in two 10 hour days, if they had done all the book work prior to 7AM the first day and if they had wanted to spend two 10 hour days doing it. Even with highly competent water people that would be an exhausting weekend for everyone involved, including the instructor.

The scuba grapevine here in the Islands is pretty good (coconut wireless) and in the last 8 years of nearly full time work in recreational tourist dive employment I have never heard of a 2-day OW class even from the operators with the absolute worst reputations.

IMHO, 2-day PADI classes that produce OW certification only exist in the imaginations of the PADI bashers. The only way I will believe differently is if links are published to actual 2-day OW classes being offered.

6) All internet bravado should be ignored.

 

[Web Monkey]

I'd like to see a FIFTH (and maybe even SIXTH) open water dive introduced into the scheme, where the student and his buddy actually plan and execute a dive with the instructor simply watching/supervising. Right now for OW dives 1-4 the student is essentially doing four "trust me dives" with the instructor leading. Really no way to know if the student is capable of planning and executing a dive WITHOUT an instructor.

"You want me to do what???"

Once the students realize that at the end of the class, they'll be expected to grab a buddy, plan the dive, assemble and check the gear, execute the dive as planned and come back with no major problems and a decided lack of terror, the "how fast can I get my c-card" thing would pretty much disappear.

Terry