how much do shops make on us???

[ktomlinson]

I don't get why people say shopping online is a hassle...I buy 2-3 items a week online from various places and rarely have any trouble. If dive shops can't compete then they will fail. If your local dive shop shuts down check with your fire dept for air fills, that's where I get mine.

 

[cfcstl]

Well i get a 15% discount and free air fills, for volunteering at lds when they need help..... I think i am getting a pretty good deal, but what kinda comission do the shops actually make on scuba gear?? I have always been curious, cause i see the PADI and NAUI open water diving students get tonnes of new gear with every new class that comes up, and people like me who always seem to be buying stuff there, help fill this burning question of mine please..

Here is a little tip for students and customers who are considering spending money on equipment at their dive store. It is a normal response for a student to look at the instructor and see what kind of gear he is using. During a class, a good instructor will not only teach a student to become a diver, but will develop a trust and bond with the students. This is very common and most students will look up to the instructor for information and advice. This can create a conflict with an instructor who wants the best for his students but also has an obligation to the store to sell equipment. Most dive store owners realize this and provide the instructor with the store's top gear at a reduced price. An example would be cost plus 10%. The instructor would be able to purchase one set of gear a year with this type of deal.
Now as an informed student or customer look at the equipment the store personnel and instructors are using. If it is all the same top of the line gear you can bet they all have a deal with the store. If an instructor is using rental gear during class, you can bet he owns gear the store doesn't sell and cannot use it during teaching. Worst case is the instructor shows up wearing gear that the store doesn't sell. This is a red flag and you might consider shopping around before spending a bundle at that store. This is an example of store policy and good management, both for students and instructors. This is a common practice but will vary from store to store.

ps. You can look at a store's website, browse the travel photos section and see what the group leader is wearing or look at the staff photos. Many instructors will have their gear on when the photo is taken.

 

[oly5050user]

Because there is no manufacturer with anti-consumer policies trying to protect their margins on air and service. And once an effective independent dive club gets going, it would be curtains for the LDS.

When it becomes curtains for the LDS then it willbe very difficult for anyone to get into diving.The ease of accessibility will be gone.Where will you get training? Yes I know you anti LDS people will say from independent instructors..You really think that will happen? Some rare places maybe,but the actuall presence of a LDs brings people into the activity,not the independent who may teach,if he/she is lucky, 10 people a year.Less people diving= higher cost for charters,air,repairs,training.I know that if there are no LDs I will probably still teach as an independent,but my fee for a ow course will go up dramatically.I will be up around $1,000. per person for a 2 person class,$850.per person for 3-4 people.That will not include the 4 ow traing dives.Reason for higher fee is my costs go up if there are no LDS to go to for support ,insurance will definitely go up as its costs are not shared with LDS that get their insurance from the same companies.Pool fees and learning material costs will go up as there is less choice.Not many people will enter the activity at that rate.
As to margins on gear,it is a very small industry,prices may seem artifically high because not that much product is actually sold.The greater amount of a product that is sold,the lower it may cost to make it.If scuba market sold a kit to the same amount people a year that have a cell phone the gear costs would more likely be less than half of what it costs today.Stores and manufacturers have to sell at the price they charge to make a profit after paying for raw materials,labor,taxes,shipping,marketing,rent,etc...Squeeze out the LDS and the online stores will be there,but watch,now they raise their prices because the market is smaller and to survive they must charge more $ because of selling less product and the manufacturer will charge them more because production costs go up on a per item scale.
Now you have the online stores but have to buy a compressor to get your air,or join a "club" of some type..I rather not have to join a club to be able to dive.Too many egos to deal with. Most "clubs" I have seen are usually centered around a very few individuals that exclude people that are not like themselves.Most clubs ask what YOU can do for them rather than what can WE do for you...

 

[Garrobo]

The LDS will mark up the gear to a profit level which will allow them to stay in business and make a decent profit. 'Decent' is realtive to the owner's expectations. I couldn't care less since I have never bought an article from a dive shop, though I have had some reg work done in the past, before I found out that it is actually cheaper to buy new recreational-quality regs every year or so and sell the old ones on Ebay. I buy online, usually from Leisurepro or off of Ebay.

 

[vladimir]

When it becomes curtains for the LDS then it willbe very difficult for anyone to get into diving.

Good--less-crowded reefs.

I know that if there are no LDs I will probably still teach as an independent,but my fee for a ow course will go up dramatically.I will be up around $1,000. per person for a 2 person class,$850.per person for 3-4 people.

That's what training should cost. I paid $1,000 for the course my wife and I took together...in 1990--not including check-out dives. But it was similar in scope to the course I took when I was first certified in 1975 by the YMCA, and I considered it a bargain.

 

[redacted]

When it becomes curtains for the LDS then it willbe very difficult for anyone to get into diving.The ease of accessibility will be gone.Where will you get training? Yes I know you anti LDS people will say from independent instructors..You really think that will happen? Some rare places maybe,but the actuall presence of a LDs brings people into the activity,not the independent who may teach,if he/she is lucky, 10 people a year.Less people diving= higher cost for charters,air,repairs,training.I know that if there are no LDs I will probably still teach as an independent,but my fee for a ow course will go up dramatically.I will be up around $1,000. per person for a 2 person class,$850.per person for 3-4 people.That will not include the 4 ow traing dives.Reason for higher fee is my costs go up if there are no LDS to go to for support ,insurance will definitely go up as its costs are not shared with LDS that get their insurance from the same companies.Pool fees and learning material costs will go up as there is less choice.Not many people will enter the activity at that rate.
As to margins on gear,it is a very small industry,prices may seem artifically high because not that much product is actually sold.The greater amount of a product that is sold,the lower it may cost to make it.If scuba market sold a kit to the same amount people a year that have a cell phone the gear costs would more likely be less than half of what it costs today.Stores and manufacturers have to sell at the price they charge to make a profit after paying for raw materials,labor,taxes,shipping,marketing,rent,etc...Squeeze out the LDS and the online stores will be there,but watch,now they raise their prices because the market is smaller and to survive they must charge more $ because of selling less product and the manufacturer will charge them more because production costs go up on a per item scale.
Now you have the online stores but have to buy a compressor to get your air,or join a "club" of some type..I rather not have to join a club to be able to dive.Too many egos to deal with. Most "clubs" I have seen are usually centered around a very few individuals that exclude people that are not like themselves.Most clubs ask what YOU can do for them rather than what can WE do for you...

I think we have been through all this before.

I do not see LDSs disappearing. I do see them reducing in number but the remaining shops will be bigger and more efficient and competitive. Prices on big ticket items will settle down with somewhat lower but consistent margins. It is not the high margins that are the problem today, it is the inconsistency of the retail market and the artificial price support from manufacturers that is causing the dissatisfaction along with the quirkiness of so many little shops. LDS chains will start doing their own importing and cut out the middle-man markups that result in a mask being sold by the overseas manufacturing plant for $15 and showing up in the LDS display with a price tag of $69.95.

$1000 per student instructors will be like $1000 a hour *****s. You will have to be damn good. $850 for 2 sounds.... !!! It will be interesting to see what the training agencies do to remain viable.

I personally would not mind seeing less divers in the water. But I don't think a change in the scuba retail model will have much of an effect. It might reduce the number of divers who get trained, go on a couple dive trip, and drop out. Sure, it will ebb and flow with the economy. But larger retailers will find ways to service and profit from various geographic markets if the demand is there.

I do understand what you are saying about the potential problem of egos in clubs. Hopefully it will not be as bad as the egos in some LDSs right now with the "for profit" motivator greatly reduced.

 

[Meister481]

This argument doesn't fly for me either. If there is a demand, someone will provide the service.

Whether the scuba industry likes it or not, LDSs will have to adjust to the new market or fail. It's a hard pill to swallow, knowing that you are going to overpay by $1,000 for a couple sets of gear. I have two LDSs near me. Shop 1 (35 miles) charges almost MSRP. Shop 2 (60 miles) comes really close to online shops. Guess which one gets my business. Either Shop 2 or online. As a business, you have to be competitive.

When dive shop 1 goes out, shop 2 will raise prices. Then you have no option. There are only 2 shops in town that do nitrox and of them only 1 has it all the time. Guess what happens if one goes out? Nitrox fills could get spendy.

The goal is exceptional customer service and to offer services no other store offers. If you can maintain your bottom line with new and improved services that have little cost added to your operation by doing so, you will be a solid institution.

When the store I work for moved into a larger location in a much better area of town we became committed to stocking more product, becoming more family friendly and expanding our services. So far we have had an awesome turnaround in floor traffic, sales and the number of classes starting. It was up to the owner to commit himself to making the switch to becoming a viable option for new equipment as well as service, which had been his mainstay for the past several years. Several shops in the area send equipment they can't of won't fix to us, that speaks volumes. It's been a successful gamble for him during the recession!

 

[diverrex]

well our total mark up across the board is about 35% average and please try to support the lds because if they cant sale gear the price of an air fill and service will go thur the roof its just business

This argument is very dependent on the area in which you live. If only 20 - 50 of you dive in the local quarry and the single LDS goes out of business you might be right. Where I live in Los Angeles if every LDS went out of business (which won't happen, a few will definitely survive) I have no doubt some other alternative to supply us air (and even nitrox) will develop. Divers don't have a "right" to $4 air fills any more than a dive shop owner or instructor have a "right" to $X income a year. It is what it is and the market will sort it all out. The fact is a lot of people enjoy the dive life and there will probably always be a greater supply than demand, hence it's probably never going to be very profitable for most dive businesses or instructors. A lucky few will figure out superior business models and make above average earnings, most won't. As someone else pointed out it's really not much different than the coffee house business, for every Starbucks/Peets/Coffee Bean sucess story there will be 100's, maybe 1,000's of coffee house owners just eaking out a living, if even that.

Things change, doctors rarely make house calls, I pump my own gas, the US post office will probably stop mail delivery six days a week sometime. The LDS/Online/Air Fill business will evolve over time. There may be more or less divers, it may be more or less convenient, it may be more or less expensive. But diving will go on.

And I'll never understand why someone would "volunteer" at a for profit business. Now if you want to barter your time for something else of value, whatever that may be - gear discounts, free air fills, instruction/dive experience, camraderie, prestige, helping others experience diving etc. that's different, then it's just a matter of is it a "fair" barter, or at least one you are happy with.

 

[redacted]

When dive shop 1 goes out, shop 2 will raise prices. Then you have no option. There are only 2 shops in town that do nitrox and of them only 1 has it all the time. Guess what happens if one goes out? Nitrox fills could get spendy.

So, are you saying that dive shops are just waiting for their competition to falter so they can jack their prices up and stick it to their customers? That is a rather strong criticism of the character of dive shops.

The goal is exceptional customer service and to offer services no other store offers. If you can maintain your bottom line with new and improved services that have little cost added to your operation by doing so, you will be a solid institution.

When the store I work for moved into a larger location in a much better area of town we became committed to stocking more product, becoming more family friendly and expanding our services. So far we have had an awesome turnaround in floor traffic, sales and the number of classes starting. It was up to the owner to commit himself to making the switch to becoming a viable option for new equipment as well as service, which had been his mainstay for the past several years. Several shops in the area send equipment they can't of won't fix to us, that speaks volumes. It's been a successful gamble for him during the recession!

There are some damn good dives shops out there and this sounds like it could be one of them. Hopefully, this is the kind of shop that will continue to be successful as scuba retail changes.

 

[lulubelle]

What is the mark up on jewelery and furniture?

Much higher than 100%. Higher on accessories and jewelry than larger furniture pieces.

I don't find the markup on scuba gear to be at all shocking, in fact, I'm surprised it isn't more. I think we would all agree that this is not a business that will make anyone rich on a small LDS level. Most are in the business for the sheer love of it. Only the large sellers/online sellers have the volume to offer things at lower markup, and only they have the possibility of making some serious $$$.

I buy both online and at my LDS. If something is "sold" to me at an LDS, then I will buy it there. I won't shop for the same item online. On the other hand, when I tried to buy my BC locally, it was not possible to do what I needed to do, so I did buy online and at a significant discount.