how much do shops make on us???

[ScubaInChicago]

OK...

But first, please tell everyone here how much you earn...gross and net. If you own your own business please advise as to what your operating costs are, what your profit margin is, and how you determine how much you charge your customers.

3.5 million gross and ~$700,000.00 net....Then the other stream of income is about ~$160,000 gross and $125,000.00 net.....The economy has taken a turn for the worst and probably won't be back for another 5+ years.

 

[RJP]

3.5 million gross and ~$700,000.00 net....Then the other stream of income is about ~$160,000 gross and $125,000.00 net.....The economy has taken a turn for the worst and probably won't be back for another 5+ years.

Then you don't need to worry about the prices at the LDS.

 

[RJP]

Any first hand experience with this phenomena?

Tobin

Not so far this week...

:shocked2:

 

[Meister481]

So, are you saying that dive shops are just waiting for their competition to falter so they can jack their prices up and stick it to their customers? That is a rather strong criticism of the character of dive shops.



There are some damn good dives shops out there and this sounds like it could be one of them. Hopefully, this is the kind of shop that will continue to be successful as scuba retail changes.

Point 1 I would say is just part of the business world as a whole. I'm not talking of doubling prices, but a 15% increase wouldn't be out of sorts with the climbing costs associated with doing business. I doubt the shop I work for would change anything besides adding more equipment to handle the added volume. To the same point, should we as an industry increase the costs associated with diving, more than likely there will be less of a draw for divers. I don't want to see that and neither does the industry as a whole.

I've also seen a few instructors stop teaching because the costs are too high compared to the return (fun or profit). When fuel prices went up we consolidated check out dives to the point that a weekend of checkouts became so taxing that it was absolutely no fun for us. We were doing as many as 10 dives a day, 1 of which could be deco if the Adv nitrox class went as planned. No fun at all.

The changing face of retail is an interesting model right now. Some customers want to get the absolute lowest price possible, lds be darned. Others just like to see the item and are willing to pay to keep the LDS close to their house. The third consumer type will work with the LDS and tell them what the price is at an online shop and try to get the LDS to come close. I'd say that most LDS's will work with customers knowing that a customer in the shop buying at a discount is better than one who will never come back. We do want people to be happy with their purchase, and nothing in our shop is priced at retail. I'm pretty sure we are below Map on several lines of gear. Heck, we have a full scuba package of BC, REG and console for less than 600 right now. That's pretty good for current name brand gear. Upgrade to an adjustable, Enviro sealed reg and computer for less than 750. Online stuff isn't much cheaper unless you are talking about off brand gear. We will not only survive, we will prosper.

 

[yarik83]

My instructor owns a dive shop 20+ miles away from open water where there is nothing to see and 150+ miles from a place where you can actually see something. He has owned that dive shop since forever and his business is way down. Is it because of poor economy? Perhaps. Is it because online retailers are way cheaper? Perhaps. Is it because he is a caniving sack of grumpy bones and skin? That one hits it right on the button. His persona pisses off just about every student who unknowingly signs up for a class. Yes he is a very good instructor but he is a very bad person. His customer skills are beyond horrible and the way he carries himself with return clients makes me want to kill a baby seal. One argument that myself and him have every time I need to buy anything is that if I buy stuff online I am no longer welcomed in his shop. If you sneak one through and dont tell him, he will give you the stink eye entire trip and complain about big businesses stealing his money.

I want to go to a different dive shop but this one is closest and people that go there are nice so I learned to make sacrifices. I worked out a deal with him where I look online first then tell him how much i want to spend then he starts bargaining and we settle on a price that is 20 dollars more than online store. That way he is happy and i have a dysfunctional home to go back to.

I do not believe in local businesses unless they are crafted items. I am sickened tired of going into a store that is 1 mile away from your home and charges 7 dollars more for same items that are sold 2 miles down the street. I am sickened tired of that. Good example: I have 2 huge cats who eat like lions so I frequently purchase cat food and cat litter. I usually spend 50 bucks per month shopping at walmart that is 6 miles away but same exact food and cat litter costs 65 dollars in a "holistic" store 1 mile away from me.

Problem with local businesses is that they are not "do it yourself and sell it for profit" stores. They are just enterpreneurs who opened a store because they thought they could earn a quick buck while charging premium hoping that people will be too lazy to go to a retail store. That model failed but they cant get it into their heads so they become bitter. In specialty places like scuba shops that takes on a completely funky flavor and not the nice kind.

 

[gotwake]

When dive shop 1 goes out, shop 2 will raise prices. Then you have no option. There are only 2 shops in town that do nitrox and of them only 1 has it all the time. Guess what happens if one goes out? Nitrox fills could get spendy.

That could very well happen. But, the economy isn't static. That LDS closes and liquidates all of their stuff. A couple of scuba buddies buys up the fill equipment cheap, aligns with some scuba manufacturers and they open up a new shop.

It all comes down to balance. Shops that charge reasonable prices and provide exceptional service will survive. The others will be gone.

 

[ScubaInChicago]

Then you don't need to worry about the prices at the LDS.

I still don't support the typical LDS model of bending over the customer....If I can find the same item at a competitor who has a good name, and I confront a LDS who tells me they can't (and gives me a BS reason), then I won't. Then I know they only deserve my air fills and a rare bolt snap or two....sometimes some bungie if I'm desperate...

 

[oly5050user]

I think we have been through all this before.

I do not see LDSs disappearing. I do see them reducing in number but the remaining shops will be bigger and more efficient and competitive. Prices on big ticket items will settle down with somewhat lower but consistent margins. It is not the high margins that are the problem today, it is the inconsistency of the retail market and the artificial price support from manufacturers that is causing the dissatisfaction along with the quirkiness of so many little shops. LDS chains will start doing their own importing and cut out the middle-man markups that result in a mask being sold by the overseas manufacturing plant for $15 and showing up in the LDS display with a price tag of $69.95.

$1000 per student instructors will be like $1000 a hour *****s. You will have to be damn good. $850 for 2 sounds.... !!! It will be interesting to see what the training agencies do to remain viable.

.

Many LDS will close,as they are doing right now.The larger ones will be few and far inbetween..A decent LDS in the NY aea here in Westchester can cost 1 to 2 million to open.That is a facility with sales floor,classroom,indoor heated pool and inventory.Not too many want to place such an investment in such a market.Better off to open a Dunkin Donut franchise and get better return on the dollar.Even a very small mom and popstore can cost $150,000 to open with very limited inventory.
The rate of $1,000. per student only comes out to about $50. an hour pay to the independent instructor. I know of pools that charge $50. a hour .Typical ow course needs minimum of 7-8 hrs of pool time..Still have to pay for gear used at the pool,air,pool time,insurance,all out of that lousy $50. an hour.not very much money left after those expenses.
Training agencies will do/can do nothing to remain viable.Less facilities to teach,less certifications/materials to sell.Member fees will go up,insurance costs will go up because of a smaller pool of insured to pay.Scuba is a speciality market and will not grow or even exist without LDS around to offer training and services.

 

[redacted]

Many LDS will close,as they are doing right now.The larger ones will be few and far inbetween..A decent LDS in the NY aea here in Westchester can cost 1 to 2 million to open.That is a facility with sales floor,classroom,indoor heated pool and inventory.Not too many want to place such an investment in such a market.Better off to open a Dunkin Donut franchise and get better return on the dollar.Even a very small mom and popstore can cost $150,000 to open with very limited inventory.
The rate of $1,000. per student only comes out to about $50. an hour pay to the independent instructor. I know of pools that charge $50. a hour .Typical ow course needs minimum of 7-8 hrs of pool time..Still have to pay for gear used at the pool,air,pool time,insurance,all out of that lousy $50. an hour.not very much money left after those expenses.
Training agencies will do/can do nothing to remain viable.Less facilities to teach,less certifications/materials to sell.Member fees will go up,insurance costs will go up because of a smaller pool of insured to pay.Scuba is a speciality market and will not grow or even exist without LDS around to offer training and services.

$50 per hour!!! I'd bet that is only those with a GED.

I was talking about $50 per student for the entire course.

 

[gearhound]

I hope all of you that are shopping online and bitching and moaning about LDSs have jobs that can be outsourced to a country with cheaper labor. Fair is fair. Your bosses should be allowed to shop around for cheaper prices and not worry about the local economy.