how much do shops make on us???

[ScubaInChicago]

I hope all of you that are shopping online and bitching and moaning about LDSs have jobs that can be outsourced to a country with cheaper labor. Fair is fair. Your bosses should be allowed to shop around for cheaper prices and not worry about the local economy.

Been there, done that..."My man in India" takes care of a ton of the day to day stuff....Com to think of it, I should have him surf the web more to find good deals to put more LDS out of business. I'll share all my findings so everyone can piggyback and offset the cost of diving....

 

[Stu S.]

Well i get a 15% discount and free air fills, for volunteering at lds when they need help

Getting a good deal? How many hours do you work at the dive shop annually? And, how much gear and air do you buy annually? If you give them 50 hours a year and save $150 on your purchases, you are making $3 an hour.

Hopefully it is fun work.

 

[vladimir]

I hope all of you that are shopping online and bitching and moaning about LDSs have jobs that can be outsourced to a country with cheaper labor. Fair is fair. Your bosses should be allowed to shop around for cheaper prices and not worry about the local economy.

Too late! I've already outsourced myself to a country with cheaper labor--and a lower tax rate.

 

[diverrex]

Quite frankly I always find the talk of "loyalty" to a LDS and even "guilt" about going elsewhere a little strange. My other local stores, grocery, clothes, restaurants, etc don't work that way. They try to offer the best comibination of selection, quality and price that makes me want to shop at their businesses. They don't "quilt" me into shopping there and they definitely never try to tell me if I go elsewhere for some items I can't come to their business for others. I actually don't see it as a healthy attitude for the LDS long term. If the dive shop depends mostly on "loyalty" due to a relationship and not due to the price/selection/service equation I suspect they won't last long. Are other specialty shops like this, what about ski shops for you skiers out there?

BTW I make almost all my dive purchasees at my LDS. I like the staff there, but that's not really why I shop there, it's their service and convenience. And when I take my reg there for annual service they have never made me feel quilty that it was puchased at another LDS (since closed). And they know I regularly take local charters other than their charters and take foreign trips other than their foreign trips. They always make sure I know about theirs but don't object when I select others.

 

[widget]

Theres been lots of these threads on Scubaboard and I have to say I read them all and generally find them interesting.

In general the issues in one country are pretty much the same in another with maybe one variation, many other countries have an EXTRA middleman involved (ie) the local distributor who also has a marked influence on the end price.

Honestly, I think the pro LDS is fast becoming a dinosaur, just before Dema last year I was visiting a manufacturer in Europe and they were saying pro LDS shops there simply can no longer survive selling only dive equipment and courses, so to keep in business they "morph" into combination "fishing / canoeing / camping / diving" operations, or in winter stop diving altogether and do Ski lessons and sell ski equipment, a lot are also joining "buying co-operatives" who go directly to Asian manufacturers and buy that "brand name look alike mask" under a house name for $10 bucks less than the brand sells it to them for, giving them a much better margin and "wiggle room" in customer negotiations.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) depending on how you look at it, dive customers generally only buy once, so the shop gets one sale and then it changes to "retention" of the customer, often this retention dos not equate to meaningfull sales, which for many shops then becomes an expense - hense the constant drive for new students, which in turn (hopefully) equates to new gear sales which in turn is keeping them afloat.

I dont say it's right or even should be like this, but its certainly a reality and in a tiny,tiny market like scuba, I cant see it getting better soon.

 

[tomfcrist]

LDSs are here to make money, but shouldn't do it at their employees expense. I get free fills, cost gear, and decent pay per student and I think I'm getting a fair shake. But I also teach independantly, and make 200 per student in profit on those courses......I would make more money teaching100% independantly but I would be paying more for gear and paying for all my fills/service. Even independant instructors can benifit from the LDS.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The key is to work with an LDS that truly realizes the value of instructors and assistants. Including independents who many times will bring them business they would have most likely never seen. The contract I just finalized last week will bring at least 50 potential customers to the shop I work with. Initially for snorkeling and skin diving but along with them will come their parents, siblings, friends, etc. And all of them will be exposed to scuba. They would have never even seen the inside of this shop without me going out there and doing a little creative marketing and setting different goals for getting students.

I went for the snorkeling/skin diving at a fraction of the cost of a scuba course and as a result the shop and I have a huge potential new customer base. Selling masks, fins, and snorkels is better than selling nothing. And given the numbers of people, the chance of new scuba divers who will not only train with me but buy gear from the shop is very nice.

Independent instructors have to be more creative, they need to look at different markets and use different methods. Some of those may not be what the normal LDS would even consider. But when we do this and bring in these new people the smart LDS will do what it can to support us as well. The dumb ones will dismiss or try to control the independent and end up losing that extra business to the ones that let us teach as we see fit and certify through whoever we choose to.

 

[Crowley]

I am glad to see some honest posts on here but as always, the bitching and moaning that dive shops and centres are out to make a quick buck at the expense of a customer is disheartening

It's a business. If there were no margins, there would be no diving, no gear, no nothing. If you think your LDS is ripping you off, ask McDonalds how much margin they are making on the average Big Mac. A whole cow gets sold for a matter of a few bucks and then it's diced and sliced into a thousand barely palatable burgers where 10 Big Macs costs more than a whole cow. How many potatoes can you buy for the same price as a packet of regular fries?

The margins on teaching courses are often miniscule; in many cases, teaching a single person open water course means that the dive centre is actually paying money for a student to be certified, and yet everybody rocks up to the dive centre asking for a "good price" because they're bringing their wife/husband along, so what deal can you cut me? My stock response is to say that I Will give them whatever discount the local McD's gives if their wife buys a second Big Mac.

Most dive shops are not trying to screw anybody over. The margins are thin, and we are losing business to the Internet, just like the record stores are having to readjust their business model to suit the age of downloaders.

Markup on equipment purchases is, in my experience, between 10% and 100%, depending on the gear. Some people have suggested that the diving customer should just bend over and take it, but believe me, in many shops, it's the employees that are being "shafted" just so you, the diver, can enjoy your wonderful new gear and then complain afterwards that they found it cheaper on the internet.

There are crappy dive shops out to make a fast buck in the same way that there are crappy garage mechanics who will try to sell you a new car instead of fixing the worn out steering gear.

Many dive centres and shops will give substantial discounts to repeat customers, because it is repeat custom that often keeps us going. Capital depreciation on rental gear costs a fortune if you have to replace every rental BCD every 2 years or less, or service the regulators every 3 months, or pay pool fees, or diesel for the boats - which is substantial given that the basic cost of gasoline has rocketed beyond pluto in the last 10 years thanks to a few selfish oil moguls who are making a MASSIVE margin on fossil fuels.

How many dive instructors of LDS owners do you see driving Ferarris? Your average estate agent is driving around in a tooled up pimpmobile taking a percentage of the cost of your house but yet in many areas, dive instructors are living below what would be the poverty line in "developed" countries, and in other "developed" locations they can only ever afford to do it part-time or at weekends.

Support your dive centres instead of automatically assuming they are ripping you off. It's not a cheap sport, yet many people expect that they should be able to flop into the water at minimum cost. It's only in the last 10-15 years or so that diving has even become available to people on middle incomes and something you can enjoy on holiday, without forking out a king's ransom for the privelage of enjoying what many people nowadays can do for a few hundred bucks.

The litigous climate of countries such as the USA, Australia, UK etc has priced scuba diving out of the market because we have to pay vast amounts of money in insurance to people who think diving is dangerous because occaisionally, people die. Regulations in my own country - the UK - are so prohibitively expensive that it has indeed become cheaper to book a whole holiday plus diving course including flights and an all-inclusive bar than it is to do a simple open water course in a crappy quarry with zero vis in middle england.

Might as well ask a ski-ing shop if you get a discount for buying both skis instead of just one.

Shop around carefully, and ask questions. I will happily give you a 25% discount on every item of dive gear and every course you undertake with me, if you are also happy to telephone your boss and take a 25% pay cut.

I will say this: we need you as much as you need us. Thank you very much. I would offer you my two cent's worth, but I can only afford one.

*plink*

Crowley

 

[scubamama5]

My Goodness, Crowley!! Well stated..can't think of how you could have explained it better! A simple thanks (under your post) is not enough..had to write in a "Big Thanks" to YOU..

 

[rigdiver]

WOW i am shocked by what all you are telling me, i guess no matter what we all are still bending over for the dive shops in a big way, no matter how much they tell ya how good of a deal you are getting:depressed:

Pay the light bill, insurance, unemployment tax, compressor cost initially with maintenance and air quality testing, filters yellow page ad, etc and then tell us how bad you are getting screwed. Oh, and don't forget the rent. I'm sure there are a few other "COSTS" I've forgotten.