How Soon Before Everyone is Using a Rebreather?

[magicwanz]

Never was, never will be an option!!!!

Spearfishing on a rebreather is ILLEGAL in the state of Florida.

Unless the laws for spearfishing change, I'll be holding my breath from the surface or using tanks....

 

[UnderwaterBumbleBee]

I have a new thought to throw into this discussion. I lean toward thinking it won't be anytime soon for RB's to be mainstream for several reasons. I think it would be safe to say that most boats and divecrew (including liveaboards) are not capable of handling an emergency situation with a technical RB diver on a mostly open circuit boat. Most probably don't have the equipment or training to be diving outside of the recreational limits. This is a really serious thing to ponder (especially if you don't have a dive buddy on a RB and you plan to dive alone) and it's hitting home for me right now. We just completed a liveaboard trip today where a crewmember was lost on a night dive and was possibly below the recreational limit, diving alone, etc.... In another week, myself and the crew know that they have possibly a single diver coming on board with a rebreather that has already mentioned doing deep dives. Nervous would be putting it lightly and I think and hope they will be instilling some limits with that person.

 

[jepuskar]

I don't understand how an emergency on a rebreather is any different than one on OC?

Please tell me how you would treat differently?

 

[UnderwaterBumbleBee]

Well the crewmembers indicated that they would have no ability to aid someone below 130 feet nor do I think it a good idea for this person to dive alone after such an incident below that depth.

 

[UnderwaterBumbleBee]

Also didn't help that Belizean Coast Guard didn't show for almost 24 hours by air or sea.

 

[caveseeker7]

The dive profiles and procedures are usually mandated by the skipper, in some areas by law, and should always be mandated by common sense. There are recreational dive charters and there are technical dive charters. Either can be done OC/RB exclusive, or mixed. Some skippers allow solo dives, others don't. Has nothing to do with RB divers.

If the boat you're on is a recreational boat, filled with recreational divers, no one wants to wait for either an OC or RB diver to return from a three hour deco dive.

As far as accidents are concerned, there is no major difference between the diver being on OC or CC. Either he has an accident or not. Either the crew is well trained and has an accident protocol in place or not. If you're diving a wall or pinnacle on OC, run out of gas and sink or if you plan to go past 130 ft and have a problem there, either way you'll be within reach or not. Most likely we're talking recovery anyway, as surface support usually happens at the surface.

With the exception of caustic cocktails, everything that can happen on a rebreather can happen on OC. Maybe with a lesser chance, but it can happen. And chemical burns to the mouth and throat certainly can happen with all kinds of chemical substances found in every household and on any boat.

Relying on the Coast Guard to save the day is foolish, threads in the accident forum already discussed this. They may already have an incident or accident to deal with, same with hyperbaric chambers. You may just be out of luck.

It is up to the local dive operator to know what if any third party support is or can be available, and have contingency plans in place. A well trained crew providing first aid to an injured diver can go a very long way saving his life and health. An EMT or MD on board increases chances, as does DAN support. But diving has its dangers, and in some cases the best team, the best support, the best doctor and fastest Coast Guard chopper won't be able to make a difference.

If anything, CCR divers have an additional O2 supply they can stretch for several hours if they have enough sorb and the rig's still operable. That's what DAN's REMO unit is, a small surface rebreather for Remote Emergency Medical Oxygen supply. Also, the CCR diver may well be able to be on 100% O2 while still submerged 18 or 20 feet, all the way to and at the surface while waiting for support from the boat.

 

[Tienuts]

Well the crewmembers indicated that they would have no ability to aid someone below 130 feet nor do I think it a good idea for this person to dive alone after such an incident below that depth.

I think there is this big mis-conception, just because someone dives CCR, the have to go deep, for long periods. While I enjoy diving deep, and doing long duration dives, it is certainly not all I enjoy. The vast majority of my dives are done within no-deco limits with my OC girlfriend as my buddy. She governs the bottom time, and when she hits her turn pressure, we go up. Even when I am diving with other CCR divers, we are back on the boat when the Captain tells us to be.

As far as depth, here in South Florida, it is impossible to dive below the depth of the site the captain puts me on, but let's say we were diving a wall - it would be irresponsible to dive past the limits we were alloted - to sneak in a longer or deeper dive if you will. My deep dives require planning, and team co-ordination, which includes the boat crew. The guys who sneak in longer or deeper dives on CCR, are the same ones who would do the bounce dives to 200 on an AL80 with a yoke valve.

 

[SFLDiver3445]

I have a new thought to throw into this discussion. I lean toward thinking it won't be anytime soon for RB's to be mainstream for several reasons. I think it would be safe to say that most boats and divecrew (including liveaboards) are not capable of handling an emergency situation with a technical RB diver on a mostly open circuit boat. Most probably don't have the equipment or training to be diving outside of the recreational limits. This is a really serious thing to ponder (especially if you don't have a dive buddy on a RB and you plan to dive alone) and it's hitting home for me right now.

Amazing! For some unknown reason, people are under the impression that, because a rebreather is used, all of the well established safety rules that the dive industry and most dive boats have in place get immediately thrown out the door!

Since when does the use of a rebreather automatically give a diver card blanche to dive alone when on a dive boat or livaboard? On the dive boats I regularly dive, I've seen experienced divers dive alone, but the decision to allow that was a personal choice the boat's dive staff made, based upon their perception of the divers ability and not based on whether a rebreather was being used. Futhermore, most of the divers I've seen diving alone, were on open circuit - so how does the use of a rebreather change that practice?

Also, since when does the use of a rebreather automatically give card blanche to dive as deep or as long as he/she wants to when on a dive boat or liveaboard? Same thing applies - the dive staff aboard the vessel sets the rules and that decision is a personal choice by the staff. Again, I've never seen a dive boat have two sets of rules (one for oc and one for rb divers). As stated before, the decision to allow a diver to exceed the boats pre-set depth and time limits have always been based on boat staffs perception of the diver's abilities and experience, and not automatically granted, because a rebreather was being used - so how does the use of a rebreather change that practice?

Unfortunately, as with so many things in life, people usually seem to opt to fear the unknown and to mold their statements to reflect their position. If people would instead reserve judgement until such time as they understood the new item/technology, there would in turn be less propagation of innacurate information and less irrational opinions and treatment of the new item/technology.

 

[PacketSniffer]

UnderWaterBumbleBee,

You've seen a very small sampling of rebreather divers. I would tend to think that it's inappropriate to paint everyone with such a wide stroke. Your issue is not with rebreathers in particular but with a select few that dive them. There are *** holes everywhere in this world. Some of them even dive rebreathers.


I implore you to educate yourself in rebreather technology. You can pickup the following great reference books here:

Mastering Rebreathers

Tek Closed Circuit Rebreather (IANTD)


You just may be surprised what you learn.

Happy Holidays

 

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

UnderWaterBumbleBee,

You've seen a very small sampling of rebreather divers. I would tend to think that it's inappropriate to paint everyone with such a wide stroke. Your issue is not with rebreathers inparticular but with a select few that dive them. There are *** holes everywhere in this world. Some of them even dive rebreathers.


I implore you to educate yourself in rebreather technology. You can pickup the following great reference books here:

Mastering Rebreathers

Tek Closed Circuit Rebreather (IANTD)


You just may be surprised what you learn.

Happy Holidays

Great books, I'm half way done with Jeffry Bozanics Mastering rebreathers, UnderwaterBumbleBee
If you like ID sell you mine at a discount , great reading , and will give you a real understanding on how rebreathers really work !

Good Advice