How to ensure my safety when there is no guide dive with me?

[Elonna]

Is the concept any different then finding a more experienced dive buddy to dive with? It probably isn't extremely prudent for two new divers to go off on their own. Myself, being a new diver, I'd want an experienced diver diving with me. If the only dives the OP is experienced with outside of class is guided dives then a DM is what they know.

Educating the poster on finding a more experienced dive buddy local to them, doing some quarry/lake dives with said buddy to become more comfortable with diving, etc would be a lot more helpful here than being rude and disrespectful and perhaps scaring them away from being able to come here and ask questions and get good answers.

I consider myself a relatively intelligent person. If I was going to jump off a boat in an unfamiliar dive site without a guide, I'd at least want my dive buddy to be a lot more experienced than I am. Only having recently gotten my OW, I doubt I could navigate my way out of a bucket underwater at this point. Navigation is only barely covered in OW and the straight line navigation required for certification hardly reinforces anything.

Those who suggested additional training...good job. That is my plan. It amazes me how easily experienced divers forget what it was like when they were new divers. It's exciting and you can't wait until your next dive. But the first time you get into water without an instructor/DM...whatever...doesn't matter how much you might trust your buddy, it's also a bit scary. I haven't even done it yet...and I can't wait, but it is also daunting.

I do agree that if your doing a non-guided boat dive then if you want the comfort of a guide then yes you have to pay for it. But I think the OP expected ALL boat dives to be guided so really they should be given the information to be sure to find out what they are paying for upfront. Not all boat dives are guided tours for tourist divers, etc. Still no need to be big, bad and mean to us newbies )

 

[D_B]

I remember my first dive with just my buddy .. it is a bit scary , I was already pretty aware of the responsibility on our shoulders
... your going off by yourself in an environment that is less than forgiving of inattention, carelessness, or bad decision making.

I agree, scaring away someone from asking questions is not the way to impart knowledge .. and that's why this forum has specific rules

 

[rstofer]

I think most of the replies center around the idea that, if your training was adequate, you should be able to dive without a guide. That is, you should be pretty self-reliant coming out of OW training.

We all know that isn't true. At least not today. The courses have been shortened and OW divers may not have the skills required to be self-reliant. That's ok as long as they do resort dives with a DM. Again, it depends on the program. There are still some excellent programs around. LA County comes to mind.

But the answer is to take more courses. Learn the material that has been removed from the OW program. Do more dives under the supervision of an instructor. Get the skills.

As I posted elsewhere, I had the same concerns as you re: diving with a similarly trained buddy right out of OW. In my case NAUI OW I. So I took OW II, Advanced OW and Rescue back-to-back. As it turns out, so did my buddy. We went on to do about 120 dives together that year. Never a problem.

Personally, I don't want guided dives. I have done a few and they were ok but the vast majority of the dives were completely unsupervised. Just a bunch of divers that chartered a boat to haul them around. Everybody was on their own.

As to diving with an experienced diver, see if you can find someone who has completed Rescue and AOW. Maybe they even have enough specialties and dives to be a Master Scuba Diver. That would be about the level you should look for.

But there's a problem diving with more advanced divers. They won't have problems assembling their gear, they're not stressed by getting wet, they don't fiddle with their BC, their weight belt or their mask. When it's time to descend, they vent and go. Unfortunately, the new diver will not be ready. They'll have problems clearing their ears, their mask will leak, their weight belt will be loose, etc. Not all advanced divers are as sensitive to the tribulations of the new diver as they should be.

OTOH, the new diver SHOULD know how to assemble their gear. They should have done it dozens of times at home. Even if they had to rent a tank to practice with, tightening the cam bands shouldn't look like a brand new experience. A new diver should look like they have spent some amount of time preparing to dive.

If you were an experienced diver, what would you expect from a new diver?

Richard

 

[Elonna]

I think most of the replies center around the idea that, if your training was adequate, you should be able to dive without a guide. That is, you should be pretty self-reliant coming out of OW training.

I do not disagree this may be what the previous posters meant and I do understand that yes you should be able to dive without a guide after OW. My issue is with the manner in which people responded to the OP. Instead of being helpful and steering the OP in the right direction, some of the comments were rude and condescending. There actually is a new post regarding just this thing on the Whine and Cheese board.

Some Advanced divers don't want to be bothered with helping newbies in or out of the water and that's their prerogative. But if you can't be constructive then just don't post at all.

 

[rstofer]

This particular forum is supposed to be friendly and flame-free. Sometimes it gets a little adrift.

But I see the point of the less tactful posters as well. Scuba diving is an inherently dangerous sport. If a diver can't take care of themselves, they should take up golf. The idea that a diver would EVER rely on anyone for something as important as their life is beyond comprehension. Worse, as the more advanced buddy, why would you ever accept the responsibility for taking care of someone else?

I realize the buddy concept plays into that but the buddy is always the absolute last resort. After every other option has been exhausted THEN it is time to get help from a buddy. It is NOT the first choice. Ability and self-reliance are required.

What about the more advanced buddy? Are they just diving solo with no real expectation of help from their buddy? That certainly increases their risk level.

If a diver feels they must rely on someone for their safety, they are diving beyond their limits. It's really as simple as that. We can all be nice and comforting, trying to reassure a new diver but it's all crap.

A diver simply has to be able to take care of themselves in the environment in which they find themselves.

Take more classes...

Richard

 

[Elonna]

I do not disagree with you Richard. We are all responsible for our own safety when we get into the water. If me and a classmate who just finished our OW cert dives go to a local quarry together to dive. We should be able to handle it, theoretically. In actuality, it'd probably be pretty stupid. At this point, neither of us has any real OW experience, we haven't had EFR or Rescue, nor have we had enough experience to handle a real trouble situation. We should have a more experienced diver with us. That doesn't make them responsible for our safety, but that they would be there just in case something untoward would happen. I imagine even some of the most experienced divers would have a rush of panic the first time something 'bad' happens to themselves or a buddy while diving.

Also in 100% agreement in that further training and more diving are really the only ways to get more comfortable in the environment.

 

[rstofer]

OK, how about this? Go to the quarry and just drop to 15' or so. Swim around for a while. Get used to the environment. There's no requirement to go to the bottom. Just do the same things you did for OW except perhaps a little shallower. Do the mask replacement drill. Do the air sharing drill. Do whatever you can remember of your class work. Just get time in the water. Shallow, to be sure, but time.

By suggesting having a more experienced diver along, you are saying that they are somehow going to insure your safety. That would be the whole point of having them. They are your backup plan! And that puts them in an awful spot!

Would you feel better if you had a float and an ascent line? Get one! There's nothing like hanging on to a rope. How hard can it be to pull yourself back up? Kind of like training wheels but so what? As long as it gets you in the water, it's a great idea. Around here, every instructor uses a float and an anchor line. Viz is often crappy and losing track of a student is a career limiting mistake.

Think about the things that make you uncomfortable diving at your level of experience. Are you going to run out of air? Not likely! You are going to watch your SPG like a hawk. I just know it. Are you going to lose control of your buoyancy? Well, you won't sink as long as you hang onto the line. Runaway ascent? I don't have a good answer for this. Unless that down-line is tied off to something substantial.

With your buddy hanging onto the same line, you should be in pretty good shape. When you decide to leave the line and swim around, there's nothing wrong with holding hands. It isn't macho and guys would never do it (unless their dive light burned out on a night dive) but it keeps you from getting separated.

Make a list of the things that bother you and come up with a plan to mitigate them. Then go diving!

Richard

 

[Elonna]

see you responded to me with thoughtful and helpful solutions. You didn't blast me for being a newbie

 

[D_B]

see you responded to me with thoughtful and helpful solutions. You didn't blast me for being a newbie

We could you know

good post rstofer, and you too Elonna

 

[Elonna]

We could you know

good post rstofer

I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet...my mouth sometimes gets me into a wee bit of trouble