how to handle panicky divers in group

[EFX]

What it boils down to is the student needs to maintain and build their own skills once they pass OW and AOW. Most people don't do that, they just dive and forget about any skills training they had and hope that they never have any problems.
That's all fine if nothing goes wrong, but when stuff goes wrong is when SHTF if they are unpracticed.

In all reality and knowing realistically what they could and would consider adding to the current training schedule would be a few more times of mask-off skills, reg clearing, and air shares. The way it is now they just have to demontrate is once and they pass. They should have to do it a half dozen times both in the pool and in open water. It wouldn't really add much more time (if any) and would at least establish a pattern and test of consistency with each student. Many are getting away with a one hit wonder by lucking out and pulling off a difficult skill once while they are on their best behavior. Let's see if they could do it 5 or 6 times in a row, that would be huge.

Practice makes perfect. Skills should also not be practised in the same manner as in the OW class (i.e., kneeling on a 20 ft. platform, OOA sharing facing your buddy, etc.). Practice mask clearing and OOA sharing while swimming which mimics more realistically what could happen in open water. Performing multiple skills builds confidence which helps stave off panic.

At the end of my OW pool training 40 years ago we did a "harrassment" style exercise where we had to replace a mask or reg removed by an instructor while swimming around the outer edge of the pool. In order to pass we could not break the surface. Some have suggested this would be counterproductive and lead to students panicking. However, we were only 2-3 ft under water and the instr's could easily pull us help if we got into trouble. I don't recall anyone complaining about it and no one panicked. This method incorporates multiple skills I mentioned above. How this type of training is done is important. Our skills were developed gradually over many pool sessions to get us there. Other skills we had to do was diving to the bottom of the deep end and put all our equipment on. Another was breathing off a tank valve (no reg) again at the bottom of the deep end. This involved removing the reg, breathing from the tank, and calmly putting the reg back in your mouth.

 

[george_austin]

I've been certified since 1972 and have been a very active diver from my home in California since then - I traveled all over the world diving - lost my mask twice - once in a strong current and once by a playful Sea Lion. When you're new you should practice taking it off underwater, swim around a little bit, put it back on. Do this often and it will just be one more thing you know your proficient at.

This turning off air and stuff on students underwater in the pool is flat stupid and doesn't do anything except piss people off. I'd punch somebody.

 

[GreevesEJ]

I have been currently working through a training school from open water to OWSI; it’s a 9 month program on the weekends. After our dive master test the last thing we do is swim around as the instructors "sharks" us, i.e. air off, mask off, reg pulled out. At one point my air was off, mask was off and my fins were floating to the surface. I do believe it is good training and would argue that there a potential for any of those things happening on a dive, minus my air just turning off. I am very confident in the water and all of that showed me i can easily manage most things if the sh** hits the fan in recreational diving.

One of my buddies that’s going through this course was also in the pool, he wasn’t the most confident person in the water when we first started, now he is very confident, even during the sharking he was able to keep himself calm and handle the situations that a were thrown at us.

 

[TatianaSilva]

Well, when I did my course, we had some exercises where we were all swimming around in the (not sure, but 5 or 6m deep) pool and the instructors would sneak up behind us and close our gas, pull the regs and masks off our faces, all things that could happen during a dive. We then had to deal with the problem and retrieve the reg, ask for gas, place the mask back on and empty it... Although in a controlled environment, I guess this already can give some indication as how a diver will react.

my instructor did it to me too ... of course, i panicked and had to go to the surface . I think little things like this , the ones you dont expect, are useful while in the course ... know i will always remember that moment and go straight to my buddy's

 

[PhatD1ver]

True, but it is effective — not politically correct but effective at teaching panic control.

More accurately, working up to the final “harassment dive” is a process that provides training and habituation to manage panic. Many people are under the mistaken impression that they just unleash harassment during the final pool session… that’s not how it works. They start harassing you slowly so by the final day in the pool you are well prepared. Still intimidated as hell, but well prepared.

Unfortunately, running a class like that outside the military would result in assault charges in the US today. It is also horribly labor intensive and requires a lot more skill to keep from hurting people than you would think.

I respecfully disagree and call BS on this theory. There is no evidence or studies to show that in water harassment improves training retention. I finished my certification in May. 6 weeks later, I had my first and hopefully last OOA situation.

Nothing my instructor did other than teaching me to STOP, THINK, and ACT prepared me for going OOA... luckily, my buddy wasn't far away and after initially thinking I was kidding, offered air and we surfaced.

But I can't think of any reason, except maybe in CAVE training, to do things that intentionally raise the level of discomfort for someone in an already challenging environment.

 

[victorzamora]

I can't think of any reason.....to do things that intentionally raise the level of discomfort for someone in an already challenging environment.

Honestly, Open Water Divers aren't in that challenging of an environment. My wife used to think it was challenging. I used to think it was challenging. It took me a couple hundred dives to really and truly get very comfortable in the water. I started off more comfortable than my wife was, and it took me hundreds.....how long would it take her? A couple dozen pool dives with me ratcheting up the intensity of my harassment. Now, I can do nearly anything I want to her, and the worst she does is roll her eyes at me. It does help.

Your "Stop, think, act" isn't enough to do in theory. Many/most people don't have the ability to keep calm in those situations. What you do by adding stress in a controlled environment is add practice to stressful situations. Harassing the diver simulates the stress of it really happening instead of the super ridiculously staged crap most instructors do. Practicing for emergencies as close to a real emergency as possible is how you build up stress tolerance, to keep you from panicking.

 

[Storker]

Practicing for emergencies as close to a real emergency as possible is how you build up stress tolerance, to keep you from panicking.

There's a reason why good first aid/emergency response exercises are made to mimic a real emergency instead of being just a calm session in the classroom...

 

[DukeAMO]

It's true, just talking about it doesn't do the trick. You have to actually do it. In our recent Rescue class, the instructor told us in advance that we'd be tempted to rush into the rescue scenarios without thinking through a plan first, so we should be extra careful to stop and talk about what we were going to do on shore before getting in the water. So what happened? As soon as the instructor started waving his arms out in the lake and disappeared, one of the guys threw on his gear, swam out, and did a solo dive to bring the instructor up to the surface. No, no, no, no. Rule #1 of search and recovery: do not allow solo dives. He and his group got a very stern talking to on shore. Reset and try again. It went much better the second time, of course. That wasn't even a real rescue, but even a simulated stressful situation makes it harder to think straight. If you keep practicing, though, it gets better each time.

 

[TMHeimer]

Everybody has a panic threshold. Even the student who breezes through class can encounter something unexpected that sets them off. My only experience with a panic-stricken buddy was someone with about 50 dives (and GUE Fundies, I think) whose mask flooded unexpectedly, and he just lost it.

So no, I don't think anything can or should be done to try to "weed out" all the divers who might panic. We can definitely identify people whose anxiety level is very high, and work with them to lower it, or counsel them out of the activity (which we do, from time to time). But we can't possibly refuse certification to anyone who might panic later, because that's all of us.

Agree. I believe anyone, regardless of experience will panic given the right set of circumstances--ei. you know you're getting down to your last breath. This would be true doing anything, not just scuba. I have been in several somewhat "uncomfortable" situations (due to current, cramps, etc.) and fortunately I did the "stop, think, act" thing. But these were not dire situations--plenty of air.

I do agree with another post in that there should be some form of rescue instruction in the OW course, even if is not practiced and simply info. in the manual/e learning. Could come with a disclaimer like "PADI does not endorse you trying this stuff on your own and recommends training". At least the info. is there. I told my former (OW) buddy what to do should I become unconcious at depth. I assumed he would not have to deal with me as a panicked diver. At least then he had SOME form of rescue knowledge other than tired diver tows and cramp removal!

Logically, "harassment" seems a good idea, providing the students are well prepared for it (they don't know WHAT the harassment will be) and know it's coming. Obviously done after they have had some CW time--maybe 3 of the pool dives?

Agree also that there is no practical way to "weed out" potential panickers, just look for obvious signs that may point to that.

 

[Anthony Hayes]

kr2y5,

The programs I personally know about are university scuba courses (semester-long, for-credit, elective courses).

Safe Diving,

rx7diver

turns out those "semester long" courses are NOT all semester. They are less than 5 weeks long @ 1 day a week. Usually scheduled after the last day of financial disbursements has expired (so no refunds and withdrawal dates are only a week after course starts, so you get an "F" that screws your GPA and rides your transcript forever) . I know, I'm in one of those "semester long" courses. And the only way to know the actual number of days for these courses is to register, pay and get the course syllabus.