Your other points are pretty funny, but to this, I'd point out that a couple of fallacies; first in supposing that the most popular choice is also quantifiably the better choice, and alternately in supposing that by virtue of popularity, something that is merely sufficient cannot be appreciably improved upon by a better-than-sufficient design.
How to pick a BP/W?
- Thread starter OldNSalty
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Your other points are pretty funny, but to this, I'd point out that a couple of fallacies; first in supposing that the most popular choice is also quantifiably the better choice, and alternately in supposing that by virtue of popularity, something that is merely sufficient cannot be appreciably improved upon by a better-than-sufficient design.
OP
OldNSalty
Contributor
I wasn't asserting anything-just observing. I have never felt that popularity and quality were indicative of each other.
Regardless, I hope to try one out this weekend. I hope I don't pull a groin muscle or that neutering thing that Tobin talks about-that sounds painful. They really should put a warning on those.
rstofer
Contributor
Regardless, I hope to try one out this weekend. I hope I don't pull a groin muscle or that neutering thing that Tobin talks about-that sounds painful. They really should put a warning on those.
I think you'll have a good time. One of the best features about the more minimalist approach is that there just isn't much to the rig. Just put it on and go diving.
I certainly enjoy mine.
Looks like our diving trip to Lake Tahoe gets postponed while we go to Monterey to see the Great White Shark. The last time they had one it was only there a few days so we thought this would be a better option for the weekend.
There are logistics involved in why we don't dive while we're at Monterey while we are there.
Richard
DevonDiver
N/A
Hit the nail on the head!
Far too many people instinctively want to size their shoulder straps as though they were wearing a rucksack. It seems people get into this habit because they start diving in 'sloppy' jacket style BCDs and feel the urge to over-tighten straps to compensate for this.
The 'knock-on' from this is that when they transition to a BP/W, they size their shoulder straps wrong (way too tight). This makes the gear difficult to get on and off. People blame the equipment design for this...and then go and waste $$$'s on a fancy 'comfort harness'.
Then, as people gain experience diving in the BP/W the sizing eventually becomes more appropriate and they naturally gravitate back towards a K.I.S.S. harness.
When I see people complaining about having difficulties donning or doffing a BP/W with K.I.S.S. harness, then I know it is down to one fo two factors...either they have a serious upper-body impediment or they haven't got it sized right.
...and this goes right back to the post I made at the very start of this thread.... if you choose to dive with a BP/W...they you should do so properly....and that means divorcing yourself from the bad habits and mis-beliefs that arise when you dive in a poodle-jacket BCD.
If you compromise with a BP/W, you totter down the road of eliminating all of its unique benefits.
as I said loonnnggg ago....
OP
OldNSalty
Contributor
Update: I went out on a beach dive this weekend with GLENFWB and he showed me his setup. I have to say now I think I understand. It is a lot smaller then I thought it would be and I didn't find the harness to dig in or anthing. In fact, it felt a lot like my old ruck sac from the army so it was kinda like coming home again...and the crotch strap-man, I already look sexy but that was a huge improvement if you can believe it.
I was originally thinking that if I go with the BP/W rig that I would get those padded straps and maybe a sternum strap but now-no, you don't need it. The canvas was more then fine. I liked the way it could be configured and D rings added (or not). I thought the rear dump valve being on the inside was a little odd but Glen explained why its that way. I understand but wonder why a pure recreational wing would need the valve facing down...oh well, I can adjust to that.
Anyway, all this and I didn't even dive it (Glen wanted me too but there was an air 2 problem). Regardless, I think I've seen enough to know what I want in my next BC purchase. Thanks everyone for the 411 and thanks Glen for taking the time to educate me.
I was originally thinking that if I go with the BP/W rig that I would get those padded straps and maybe a sternum strap but now-no, you don't need it. The canvas was more then fine. I liked the way it could be configured and D rings added (or not). I thought the rear dump valve being on the inside was a little odd but Glen explained why its that way. I understand but wonder why a pure recreational wing would need the valve facing down...oh well, I can adjust to that.
Anyway, all this and I didn't even dive it (Glen wanted me too but there was an air 2 problem). Regardless, I think I've seen enough to know what I want in my next BC purchase. Thanks everyone for the 411 and thanks Glen for taking the time to educate me.
cool_hardware52
Contributor
It doesn't face "down" It faces "out". When you dump via the OPV be sure to pull up and around, not down. You need to lift the valve to where the bubble is in the wing.
BTW, no "AirII" = No AirII problems
Tobin
eelnoraa
Contributor
Can you explain why it is on the inside? I want to know too. This weekend, I dived with bp/w, I kepting trying to dump from the OPV, but hardly successful. It seems there is only way way to dump air. It is to use inflator's button. Most wing, like mine, don't have pull dump on corrogated hose either. Just wonder why!
vixtor
Contributor
Tobin,
I have discovered that the nicest way to dump the OPV (at least your OPV with thick cord) is to hold the string in the closed fist with the last three fingers, while the thumb and the index finger hold the valve itself in position (to counter the pull). This way the wing is not pulled and the bubble stays near the valve.
Eelnoraa,
As for the position, the wing usually wraps around the tank, and the valve ends being on the "outside" of the tank - facing left on the left side of the diver, in a pretty high point, where the air is. If the valve would be installed on what you call outside, it would be in fact caught between the wing and the tank, in a position very hard to find/use.
I usually find it harder to dump using the inflator, because this forces me in a vertical position in the water. If you cannot dump from the OPV you are maybe staying in a head-up position. There's no pull-dump corrugated hose because it is easy to dump from the OPV when horizontal, and because if you pull the corrugated hose, you would basically pull the whole upper part of the wing towards your head, shifting the air bubble to the lower side of the wing, and failing to dump air because of that (the corrugated hose elbow would not be the highest point anymore).
I have discovered that the nicest way to dump the OPV (at least your OPV with thick cord) is to hold the string in the closed fist with the last three fingers, while the thumb and the index finger hold the valve itself in position (to counter the pull). This way the wing is not pulled and the bubble stays near the valve.
Eelnoraa,
As for the position, the wing usually wraps around the tank, and the valve ends being on the "outside" of the tank - facing left on the left side of the diver, in a pretty high point, where the air is. If the valve would be installed on what you call outside, it would be in fact caught between the wing and the tank, in a position very hard to find/use.
I usually find it harder to dump using the inflator, because this forces me in a vertical position in the water. If you cannot dump from the OPV you are maybe staying in a head-up position. There's no pull-dump corrugated hose because it is easy to dump from the OPV when horizontal, and because if you pull the corrugated hose, you would basically pull the whole upper part of the wing towards your head, shifting the air bubble to the lower side of the wing, and failing to dump air because of that (the corrugated hose elbow would not be the highest point anymore).
You can easily dump from the rear dump, if you grasp the string, pull slightly OUT away from your body, and rotate your wrist. Then the whole corner of the wing turns upward and vents easily.
We don't have pull dumps because they have a nasty habit of pulling off or having the wire break, and they aren't necessary.
We don't have pull dumps because they have a nasty habit of pulling off or having the wire break, and they aren't necessary.
eelnoraa
Contributor
Can you explain what is the advantage of Air2?? The group I dived with this weekend, half of them (the experienced half) have Air2 type of inflator/octo combo. I can see it has one hose less than the normal octo, but it seems to have other more pratical issues especially for bp/w users.
Most of wing have no shoulder dump on right side, the lower dump doesn't work on acsent. It seems with air2, the only way to dump is to take the air2 out of mouth, raise the the corrogated hose, dump air, put air2 back into mouth, clear, take a few breathes and repeat the whole thing again. It sounds hassale to me.
Even with wings with shoulder dump on right side, the donner will usually have his/her right hand holding onto buddy's BC harness, so cannot really use right shoulder dump easily.
Am I missign something here? What is the main advantage?
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