How to pick a BP/W?

[vixtor]

Don't use a crotch strap.

The crotch strap is part of the "magic" - it holds your rig fixed to your body, in a very stable position, no matter what are you doing (either floating at the surface, or being underwater horizontal, vertical, face-up or however else you wish). Without it the behaviour might resemble the one of a BCD, which floats around you, not very stable.

When i got my BP/W it took me a few dives to understand the importance of the crotch strap - initially I let it not tight enough (being scared it might bother me), but then I started to tighten it little by little, until it forced the shoulder straps to stay tightened, preventing any vertical movement of the backplate.

 

[Kevin K]

I meant, "I" don't use a crotch strap. I have... I just don't feel the need for it for what I do, which is dive the east coast of florida to a 130 at most.

 

[OldNSalty]

See, this is a good discussion...lots of info.

So the crotch strap-Diving in skins, calm warm gulf water single tank well within recreational limits, is it really needed?

Pockets? I can get pockets right? But I have to ask-I honestly don't cary that much stuff. Sometimes I feel like I am missing something. Like I see guys with reels and SMBs but I've never owned a reel and only cary an SMB if the boat/dive requires it. AM I missing something with my lack of gear or should I buy that stuff and then become a christmas tree?

The inflator hose, do they have dump valves at the elbo or can I get one? and a longer hose-but I think someone already said they make longer hoses.

And being bouant at the start of the dive in case of wing failure-explain please? Is this really an issue if I dive in locations that...well, I can't get past teh rec limits unless I bring a shovel and dig a 40-50 hole in the sand at the bottom. Wouldn't a bail out bottle save me should I sink at teh start of the dive?

These are just some of the questions that I have. Some of them might be pretty naive I know but when it comes to BP/W-zero experience. kinda scary after so many dives.

 

[vixtor]

So the crotch strap-Diving in skins, calm warm gulf water single tank well within recreational limits, is it really needed?"

for me it provides additional comfort and stability, so I would advise you to use it.

Pockets? I can get pockets right?

some say the best pockets are glued to the exposure suit. i am not using pockets currently.

AM I missing something with my lack of gear or should I buy that stuff and then become a christmas tree?

You should buy&use what you need. if you don't need something, don't take it underwater. Of course, there's a deeper question - how do you tell if you need something or not as long as you never used it to see how useful it might be. There's no good answer for this, you'll need to try and decide.

The inflator hose, do they have dump valves at the elbo or can I get one? and a longer hose-but I think someone already said they make longer hoses.

you don't need dump valve at the elbo; you can live without it and there are many reasons for which it is a problem (like because the way you pull the corrugated hose is stronger than how you pull the simple wire of the down valve, risking to break something; like the fact that when you pull the corrugated hose, you pull all the wing down, towards your head, moving the air bubble away from the valve itself, which would prevent dumping; like the fact that if you are horizontal, it is easier to use the rear valve).

And being bouant at the start of the dive in case of wing failure-explain please? Is this really an issue if I dive in locations that...well, I can't get past teh rec limits unless I bring a shovel and dig a 40-50 hole in the sand at the bottom. Wouldn't a bail out bottle save me should I sink at teh start of the dive?

without droping the weights, it would be hard to be buoyant at the start of the dive.. I mean, it would be hard for you to sink if you are buoyant; also, as you use air, you become lighter (more buoyant), which might pop you out of the water - of course, this also depends on the buoyancy and loss of buoyancy of your exposure suit. Ideally weighted you are neutral at the end of the dive (without most of the air in the tank); this means that at the start of the dive you are negative by 3-4kg (the weight of air itself), no matter what you do.

 

[elan]

Having taught diving courses across Asia and in the UK, then I would care to differ. I train divers to dive in the conditions they will face after the course ends.

Can confirm that statement. I observe quite often here instructors teaching OW classes in 45F water when the students can appreciate the full power of cold water and not seeing pretty fish and corals on the shores of lake Ontario. But I believe that those who were not discouraged and still want to get back in this lake will have a great potential of becoming good divers.

 

[cool_hardware52]

See, this is a good discussion...lots of info.

So the crotch strap-Diving in skins, calm warm gulf water single tank well within recreational limits, is it really needed?

Yes, If you want to realize the full benefits of the system. Crotch straps are not to be feared.

Pockets? I can get pockets right? But I have to ask-I honestly don't cary that much stuff. Sometimes I feel like I am missing something. Like I see guys with reels and SMBs but I've never owned a reel and only cary an SMB if the boat/dive requires it. AM I missing something with my lack of gear or should I buy that stuff and then become a christmas tree?

Resist the temptation to convert your new, slick, streamlined BP&W into jacket BC. Take a good look at what you really need to take with you.

The inflator hose, do they have dump valves at the elbo or can I get one? and a longer hose-but I think someone already said they make longer hoses.

Resist the temptation to convert your new, slick, streamlined BP&W into jacket BC. Longer hoses, quick dumps, etc. are simply unnecessary.

And being bouant at the start of the dive in case of wing failure-explain please? Is this really an issue if I dive in locations that...well, I can't get past teh rec limits unless I bring a shovel and dig a 40-50 hole in the sand at the bottom. Wouldn't a bail out bottle save me should I sink at teh start of the dive?

Properly weighted means you can hold a shallow stop with no gas in your wing and a near empty tank. If your total ballast, i.e. back plate, reg, empty cylinder (if negative) is more than the buoyancy of your suit you need to change components, lighter plate, less negative cylinder etc.

When using thin wetsuits it may not be possible to be neutral at the surface with a full cylinder. A buoyancy failure puts your gear at risk, s you **might** have to ditch your rig if your wing failed.

A "bailout bottle" would be no help. An alternative source of buoyancy such as an SMB would.

Tobin

 

[elan]

I think it's clear that instructors are not waiting for weather conditions to deteriorate so they can instruct in real life conditions so tell us all how you are emulating those conditions so we all understand what you are full of.:mooner:

Not every place has 80F 100ft vs. clear water. Here you have to wait for weeks for conditions to improve (vis or temp), but if you want real conditions you are welcome every day. Want 3' vis ? - here we go, want cold water ? here we go, is 43 cold enough for you ? How about 2 knots current, here we are! take it. You like silt ? we have a lot of that ....

 

[elan]

I meant, "I" don't use a crotch strap. I have... I just don't feel the need for it for what I do, which is dive the east coast of florida to a 130 at most.

If you have a good waist you might not need it... but it definitely helps especially if your buckle opens up for some reason.

 

[mikemill]

Hell the crotch strap was my #1 reason for moving to the BP/W. Got tired of the gear shifting when I went upside down to get a photo.

 

[TSandM]

I spent over an hour the other day with one of GUE's senior instructors, taking my rig apart and putting it back together again, with the shoulder straps about 3" longer than they started. The crotch strap then becomes a critical part of the stability of the rig, and the rig becomes utterly trivial to get in and out of.

Old 'n Salty, you will get used to the new equipment. The pull dump that seems so necessary now, isn't; the shorter inflator hose is just a matter of memorizing a new motion. Wings dump beautifully out of the rear dump as well (which is easy to reach).

As far as what you need to carry, that's up to you. I carry an SMB and spool when I dive off a boat, because we dive in current, and there is no guarantee you are going to come up where the boat expects you. I carry wetnotes, because it is difficult to have a really good argument with one's spouse using only hand signals and I carry a spare mask, because I need bifocals to read my gauges. So I use pockets.

BTW, as one of the few people on this board, I suspect, who has actually been involved in a true rescue with a diver in a Hog harness, I can tell you that cutting the harness is the matter of about 3 seconds' work, using a stubby DIR steak knife.