I am happy with today's level of Diver Training!

[drbill]

From what I have seen (and I see a lot of divers) the issue of buoyancy control is one not being adequately learned by many OW students today. I have watched too many new divers walking on the bottom, vertical in the water column and finning to keep themselves in the water column, etc. Current classes just don't seem long enough to acquire the proper skills.

I consider good training to be judged by far more than the serious accident rate (fatalities, DCS hits, etc.) I consider it based on the students mastery of basic skills. When I finally had to take OW in 1969 (after diving for eight years without certification), it was a three week course about four days each week. It covered "everything" up through the equivalent of rescue diver. Of course today that same course would probably run $1,200 or so and that would limit the number of newly certified divers (especially in this economy).

You can't cover the real skills necessary to become a good diver in just a few days and dives. Now students need to take AOW and should take rescue diver to get even close in most cases.

The REALLY sad thing is that I've seen a few instructors that had no idea about buoyancy control in their own diving (and I'm not referring to those involved in teaching students at the time where good control isn't always possible or necessary). I watched as one certified instructor descended out of control and crashed into a huge table coral on the edge of Half Moon Caye wall in Belize, breaking the 5' wide coral head in half and dropping a $7,000 camera over the wall in waters 5,000 ft deep. Needless to say I rescued the camera rather than her.

 

[Teamcasa]

Survival is a very low bar to set for qualifying a dive as safe.

From what I have seen (and I see a lot of divers) the issue of buoyancy control is one not being adequately learned by many OW students today.

I consider good training to be judged by far more than the serious accident rate (fatalities, DCS hits, etc.)

Indeed, getting back to the boat or beach alive does not mean you were diving safely. No more than the drunk driver that makes it home without having an accident.

The training today reflects what the market demands. Sadly, much of the training just does not equip most divers with enough skill to manage a dive completely on their own. On the plus side, many of those same divers soon recognize the need for more training and/or dive only with a qualified DM until they are better trained.

In addition, most of the posters here on SB have had more training and years of experience and their passion for training is reflected in their posts.

 

[Papa_Bear]

I guess you've found your level. After all you are selling stick to jam into the reefs. It's all clear now. Two Tanked Productions HD & SD Underwater Productions and video services

Well maybe you might miss use a tool designed to save a reef, but most use it properly! I have do more to save reefs than you cutting up you six pack rings for the rest of your life! :mooner: Maybe you should do some research BEFORE you try to make fun of something real and useful! So do you poke the reef with that 12 inch knife? It is called personal resposibility you should try it!

BTW it's a Rod not a stick!

 

[Codyjp]

Well maybe you might miss use a tool designed to save a reef, but most use it properly! I have do more to save reefs than you cutting up you six pack rings for the rest of your life! :mooner: Maybe you should do some research BEFORE you try to make fun of something real and useful! So do you poke the reef with that 12 inch knife? It is called personal resposibility you should try it!

BTW it's a Rod not a stick!

No, I use proper propulsion techniques and keep a safe distance from the living reef. The 'rods' I saw employed while in Fiji last month were being used to prod creatures out of the reefs such as lion fish, octos and anything else that was defending itself by hiding. If that is your idea of saving the reef so be it. I don't think this is a subject we will ever agree on. I have my idea of protecting the environment, you have yours.

And for the record my knife is about 1 1/2 inches long, blunt and I've deployed it twice in the last 3 years. I used it to cut a couple ties from an abandoned lobster trap in order to free a stuck horned shark. The other time I used it to cut line that had been entangled in the gorgonia. So yeah, one can certainly say I spend a lot of time stabbing stuff on the reef.

You are correct though about me cutting the 6 pack rings. It is a peev of mine but I always did that with the thought I was saving birds. Knowing I'm saving both birds and corals makes me feel really good. Thanks for the boost!

 

[RonFrank]

I try not to purchase the six pack rings in the first place, or plastic for that matter. I fail (think trash bags), but I do try.

As for the current state of training.... it works. It is not great, but it works well, and I think if the student does OW/AOW back to back they get a good dose of all that is needed to go forward.

Then they need to hook up with divers. That is a BIG key. If you are around solid divers, your are going to learn.

 

[RU4SKUBA]

I've seen OWSI that are very poor divers, have mediocre dive skills, and zero ability to communicate. I've also seen AOW divers with limited experience who can dive doubles DIR style and make divers with 1000s of dives look like very slow learners.

Its really about the skills and mental capacity of the individual diver, in the long run, not about the training or inherent abilities of the divers. This is why I advocate for immediate AOW and EAN training after OW certification, to gain knowledge about different types of dives prior to experiencing them and fully understanding the dive tables while supervised.

I really wish they'd rename the Advanced Open Water course, to acknowledge the remedial skills development of AOW. Otherwise, people having taken the AOW course think they're advanced... which is very far from the truth.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I've seen OWSI that are very poor divers, have mediocre dive skills, and zero ability to communicate. I've also seen AOW divers with limited experience who can dive doubles DIR style and make divers with 1000s of dives look like very slow learners.

Its really about the skills and mental capacity of the individual diver, in the long run, not about the training or inherent abilities of the divers.

I think there's more to it than that. An individual student who applies him/herself to learning will progress at a faster pace than one who's just in it for the card. Inherent aptitude has a great deal to do with it, and so does motivation. But the instructor also plays a significant role ... students need proper guidance and a good example to emulate at this level of training.

This is why I advocate for immediate AOW and EAN training after OW certification, to gain knowledge about different types of dives prior to experiencing them and fully understanding the dive tables while supervised.

And it's exactly the reason why I usually don't. It's the unusual student who can come out of OW with solid enough skills to begin AOW immediately and get the most benefit from the experience. Class is where you identify what you need to learn, and learn how to train your body the skills you need. But the skills themselves come from exposure to diving, and teaching your body the responses necessary to control your buoyancy and build your confidence level. And until you can reach a certain level of competency and comfort, you won't get much out of pushing beyond what you're already struggling with.

I really wish they'd rename the Advanced Open Water course, to acknowledge the remedial skills development of AOW. Otherwise, people having taken the AOW course think they're advanced... which is very far from the truth.

Of course, that assumes that remedial skills are taught.

Most AOW classes don't even teach skills ... it's nothing more than five guided dives under different conditions ... then they hand the student a card and leave them with the mistaken impression that they're somehow qualified to go do those same dives unsupervised. Most times, they're not significantly better divers going out of the class than they were going in ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[sdorn]

I reallly enjoy reading Papa Bear's posts on here. They always get a big reaction. I just wonder what would happen if someone took away her exclamation point key.

 

[JeffG]

I reallly enjoy reading Papa Bear's posts on here. They always get a big reaction. I just wonder what would happen if someone took away her exclamation point key.

her???? Yep...women get called Papa all the time

 

[*dave*]

I just wonder what would happen if someone took away her exclamation point key.

He's made great progress. Try reading some of his earliest posts if you don't believe me.