I'm paying retail for equipment from LDS

[Swan1172]

You're missing the point here. The point is that you shouldn't HAVE to purchase from an "authorized dealer" (read: dealer who kowtows to the 'minimum price' crap) in order to get warranty support. Either the manufacturer makes a reputable product or they don't. Who sells it has no bearing on that whatsoever.

Brian

I am not missing the point and agree with you completely. However, most manufacturers do not. Here is an excerpt from a letter that ScubaPro that specifically addresses Leisure Pro, but covers any internet sales.

"Please be aware that Leisure Pro, New York is not, nor has ever been, an authorized SCUBAPRO UWATEC dealer.

Leisure Pro obtains our products through "gray-market" sources and not from our factory. We have no way of assuring the ultimate consumer that any item purchased via this source has not been tampered with or modified. Nor can we assume that our product has been properly tested and inspected. As such, SCUBAPRO UWATEC does not extend any warranties on its products purchased from Leisure Pro or any other "unauthorized” dealer.

SCUBAPRO UWATEC USA does not authorize sales via the internet nor via mail order. We maintain a minimum pricing policy that our authorized dealers adhere to. Although some of our dealers advertise our equipment, once again they are not authorized to make direct sales through the internet, but rather, authorized dealers are only authorized to sell SCUBAPRO UWATEC USA equipment over the counter at their retail location.

All online companies that sell and make direct purchases of our product, like Leisure Pro are not an authorized SCUBAPRO UWATEC dealer and SCUBAPRO UWATEC equipment obtained through channels other than SCUBAPRO UWATEC Authorized Dealers does not carry the SCUBAPRO UWATEC Limited Lifetime/Limited Warranty. If you so choose to purchase SCUBAPRO UWATEC products online, the warranty will be voided.

If you still decide to purchased SCUBAPRO UWATEC equipment from anywhere other than an Authorized SCUBAPRO UWATEC Dealership, we recommend that it be inspected by an Authorized SCUBAPRO UWATEC Repair Center to be sure that it is operating and performing to SCUBAPRO UWATEC specifications

Leisure Pro may offer their own warranty on the equipment that you are considering, however, Leisure Pro, like many other online companies that sell our product, has not been trained by SCUBAPRO UWATEC nor is certified to perform maintenance on SCUBAPRO UWATEC or UWATEC equipment."

So, if a ScubaPro warranty is important to you, you will buy from one of their authorized retailers. If it isn't, you will shop for the best price.

 

[jpsexton]

You're missing the point here. The point is that you shouldn't HAVE to purchase from an "authorized dealer" (read: dealer who kowtows to the 'minimum price' crap) in order to get warranty support. Either the manufacturer makes a reputable product or they don't. Who sells it has no bearing on that whatsoever.

Brian

Amen to that, all the manufactureres should read this and think hard about it. You want to instill confidence in your product, offer an "unconditional" warranty!

If you want to have an "authorized repair center" thats somthing else alltogether but, "authorized dealer" please.

 

[Swan1172]

If you think about it, warranties are pretty much worthless anyway. How can you justify $50-$100 per year to keep your regulators inspected just to maintain the warranties? Doesn't it make more sense to just bite the bullet and pay when something needs to be repaired or
replaced? Also, does a lifetime warranty really make sense if it costs you enough in annual inspections to buy new in a few years?

A good quote from the movie Tommy Boy:

Ted Nelson, Customer: "But why do they put a guarantee on the box?"

Tommy: "Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of crap. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me."

 

[Bullswan]

You are wrong about this. The manufacturers certainly know what is going on, but they are not selling directly to Leisure Pro. They are turning a blind-eye to the gray market, but that is only because it benefits them and their affiliated LDS's.

The way it works is that an LDS buys a large volume of equipment from the manufacturer at 40% of the manufacturer's MSRP and then sells it to Leisure Pro at 50%, making a nice, quick profit. Leisure Pro then marks the product up to 75% of MSRP, makes a profit and sells it to you for 25% less than you would have paid at the LDS due to their pricing agreement with the manufacturer. You get a great deal, Leisure Pro makes money, the LDS makes money and the manufacturer makes money.

This is especially true for ScubaPro, who will not let their retailers sell for less than 90% of their MSRP. If they were looking to expand into online sales, it would make a lot more sense for them to let their authorized retailers to sell online at MSRP than it would for them to sell to Leisure Pro.

Swan,
I am not doubting that your scenario is accurate but regardless of whether SP sends an invoice for goods delivered directly to LP OR TO A MIDDLEMAN LDS the end result is the same. I think the point is that SP knows full well where their product is ending up and for them to bluster and posture about "grey markets" is somewhat disingenuous. Don't you agree?

Greg

 

[Swan1172]

Swan,
I am not doubting that your scenario is accurate but regardless of whether SP sends an invoice for goods delivered directly to LP OR TO A MIDDLEMAN LDS the end result is the same. I think the point is that SP knows full well where their product is ending up and for them to bluster and posture about "grey markets" is somewhat disingenuous. Don't you agree?

Greg

I absolutely agree. If they really wanted to end gray market sales, they could do it tomorrow -- it is really not that hard to trace where the product is coming from. The only reason they are using the LDS as a middleman is to keep them in business.

 

[ReefHound]

That letter is a hoot. Talk about serious spin. There is no evidence that LP is or has any interest in tampering with or modifying products. They are a retailer that simply wishes to buy and resell packaged goods. Unlike the LDS, I doubt LP even opens the box. They would be passed on in the exact condition as received from ScubaPro, if purchased there.

Aren't SP regs inspected and adjusted before they leave the factory? I've never heard of a manufacturer that has no QC and final inspection.

So ScubaPro voids the warranty because they cannot ensure that the product has been properly inspected and adjusted by the dealer. OK, then if a buyer takes his reg into an "authorized dealer" to get it inspected and adjusted as recommended, shouldn't the warranty be reinstated?

They can spin it all they want but it's not about the product inspection or adjustment or integrity, it's about the sales price.

 

[Bryan]

Metroplexes are fun places... my local dive shop is 1 or 2 minutes from my house, but ScubaToys is about a 15 minute drive.

Since I was certified at my local dive shop, I try to support them because they are great people and I want to see them succeed.

I ordered a BCD from my LDS, and what arrived was a Zeagle Brigade. As you know, Brigades can only be purchased from ScubaToys. And yes, I paid more than buying it from Scubatoys directly... a lot more I found out later. But, I get such good service from my LDS... free air fills, extra days tank rentals, free dive magazines, etc.

I have to admit we're on a tight budget, so saving money is important to me, but what is more important is keeping my local dive community alive by being loyal to it.

To be fair, I must admit I buy stuff from other places from time to time, but I always try to give my local dive shop the first crack at it. For example, I needed to go diving on short notice, and when I went to rent a tank, the shop was closed. I had no problem driving to ScubaToys to get a tank in that circumstance. But, it did make me wonder whether I should buy a tank of my own from my LDS and just keep it filled and ready to go.

 

[redacted]

So ScubaPro voids the warranty because they cannot ensure that the product has been properly inspected and adjusted by the dealer. OK, then if a buyer takes his reg into an "authorized dealer" to get it inspected and adjusted as recommended, shouldn't the warranty be reinstated?
.

Actually, I think they don't even really void the warranty. It is just that the mfgr does not extend the warranty to the LP customer. With LP "matching" warrany, they are not simply eating the loss when a problem occurs. They send it back to the mfgr thru whatever their source channel was. It can be a bit more time consuming as such claims may involve a couple trips across the ocean, but it works.

A good backup will out perform a good warranty on every dive.

 

[Benthic]

(Quoting a letter from ScubaPro)

SCUBAPRO UWATEC USA does not authorize sales via the internet nor via mail order. We maintain a minimum pricing policy that our authorized dealers adhere to. Although some of our dealers advertise our equipment, once again they are not authorized to make direct sales through the internet, but rather, authorized dealers are only authorized to sell SCUBAPRO UWATEC USA equipment over the counter at their retail location.

Just out of curiosity, where did you get that letter? Is it something that ScubaPro includes with their product? Did you find it on their web site?

I find the excerpt above to be very interesting. They've admitted, in writing, to their minimum pricing policy, which surprises me.

Brian

 

[Benthic]

It certainly does have a bearing, it comes down to quite often which shops have been authorized to repair their gear under warranty, as well as, since the manufacturer doesnt have a direct relationship with the big guys, there is no quality control on how their gear is being treated.

Warranty of the product itself, and warranty of service work performed on that product are two different issues.

As others have said, I have no problem with an 'authorized repair center' (however I think that such a center should be authorized to sell parts kits too) it's the concept of an 'authorized dealer' that I have a problem with.

The suggestion that an 'unauthorized dealer' might have modified a product and somehow voided the warranty is ridiculous.

Brian