I'm paying retail for equipment from LDS

[plot]

The shop has to turn a profit too, and if they think you're willing to pay full price, thats what they charge you. Now, if you wanted to haggle and negotiate a price, I'm sure they would've been more than willing to bargain. They have to compete, and if they wont back down on that full retail, then simply take your business elsewhere.


I know my LDS offers a huge discount on regulator inspections/rebuilds if you buy your regulator there... does your LDS have something similar by any chance? If so, even paying retail might save you money in the long run.

 

[Cheekymonkey]

Yea exactly but don't expect them to back down without asking or there is no point in having a retail price.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

No kidding.

If I could pay list price for my car and get the same service I got for paying list price on my regs, I'd be standing in line at the car dealer with my wallet open.

Terry

Let's talk, I can probably make arrangements with a certain car dealer I know
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[Web Monkey]

Let's talk, I can probably make arrangements with a certain car dealer I know
Ber :lilbunny:

I probably can't take time off to drive to Ohio.

OTOH, I'll bet it would be wildly sucessful at a local level. All it would take is a deal with a car rental company and some extra people to drive the cars back and forth.

Terry

 

[Carribeandiver]

Carribean, I have to say I have had great experiences using the Leisurepro offered warranties which match the manufacturer warenties. So thatseems like a very broad statement putting them down. Keep in mind if your in NY Leisurepro can be your LDS as well.

Cheekymonkey, I agree that LP can offer support on what they sell but my problem with them is they sell products for which they are not authorized dealers for and they try to beat out authorized dealers in doing so. That is bad for any industry.
Of course, I have no problem with free enterprise and I certainly do not have any problem with a dealer who sells at better prices than other dealers but sell authorized products only. Surely, you cant agree that the black market is a good thing, can you?

 

[PhilEllis]

leisure pro IS NOT a Scuba Pro authorized dealer.

They state that plainly, over and over, on their website. Anyone buying from them should clearly realize that.

No authorized dealer can sell below the minimum price set by the manufacturer. If they do, they will lose their status as an authorized dealer

That is according to ScubaPro. The law is clear that a manufacturer CAN restrict some types of advertising and CAN dictate some types of restrictions on price advertising. However, the law leans toward the retailer on the issue of setting the final sale price of an item at the cash register. A retailer is free to do as he pleases during the final negotiations with his customer. ScubaPro is also free to do business with whom they choose. However, if they restrict or punish a dealer who is not following their rules, they better come up with a more inventive reason than "he wouldn't follow our retail price policy". According to the United States Justice Department, based on a number of court rulings, vertical price fixing IS AGAINST THE LAW! That has been the case for 100 years, continues to be the case today, and is likely to be the law for years to come. The scuba companies that "enforce" these types of policies do so because of a couple of "lucky" things in their favor.......1) no scuba store has the money and resources to challenge them in court, and 2) most of the dealers LOVE having this excuse, provided to them by the manufacturers, to explain why they will not offer better to their customers.

leisure pro buys the product from black market suppliers.

Do you REALLY believe that LeisurePro is able to find the quantity of new merchandise they stock and sale from legitimate dealers going out of business, from foreign distribution sources, or from whatever other "black market" sources about which you speak? If so, they have the most efficient purchasing system ever devised. When LeisurePro has a NEWLY released regulator in stock, ready to sale, withing DAYS after it first ships from the factory, that CANNOT be explained as purchasing from these sources. It simply can't be done that fast. So what does that leave? Use your imagination. Don't simply listen to what the factory sales rep tells you. Think for yourself. Say, "Is this really possible?"

retailers like leisure pro screw up an industry for dealers, consumers and manufacturers and I dont care what the product is.

For dealers unable or unwilling to compete in the marketplace, I agree with your completely.


Phil Ellis

 

[ReefHound]

Cheekymonkey, I agree that LP can offer support on what they sell but my problem with them is they sell products for which they are not authorized dealers for and they try to beat out authorized dealers in doing so. That is bad for any industry.
Of course, I have no problem with free enterprise and I certainly do not have any problem with a dealer who sells at better prices than other dealers but sell authorized products only. Surely, you cant agree that the black market is a good thing, can you?

This "authorized dealer" crap is an arbitrary designation set by the manufacturer in order to establish an artificial price structure. Unless you are alleging that LP is having Chinese factories reverse engineer namebrand products to manufacture counterfeit clones - which I've seen no evidence or allegations thereof - the regulators they sell are the exact ones made by/for the original manufacturer. So how did they acquire them? I think they are getting them direct from the manufacturer which means that the manufacturers themselves are creating this so-called "grey market". I'll bet if it came down to a court case LP would be ruled an authorized dealer, that by selling a company hundreds of regs where it is patently obvious they will be resold at retail, that a manufacturer is effectively "authorizing" them as a dealer.

Some may say that LP is getting them through other channels but I doubt they could get them in such reliable volume any way other than direct, and besides those sources are getting them from the manufacturer. I'm pretty sure that many regs are not "falling off the truck".

 

[Diver Dave 69]

Actually Carribeandiver the black market is where illegal goods such as drugs and kidneys are sold. What LP does is called grey market and is done in a lot of industries, goods shipped over seas and then sold back to the USA.

I have no problem shopping LP because LDS (At least in my area) are very hostile towards each other. I don't want to even bother with arogant dive shop owners who have big tales about the other guys, fill my tank and I will be on my way.

If LDS are so upset about online sales than they need to do something about it and change the industry. We are a free market economy as mentioned before and the market will run itself, so if all dive shops want to make a change they need to come together and decide how to accomplish this goal. LP did this by selling high volumes at low prices on line, maybe they just had a brilliant idea?

 

[joe rock]

ScubaPro is also free to do business with whom they choose. However, if they restrict or punish a dealer who is not following their rules, they better come up with a more inventive reason than "he wouldn't follow our retail price policy". According to the United States Justice Department, based on a number of court rulings, vertical price fixing IS AGAINST THE LAW! That has been the case for 100 years, continues to be the case today, and is likely to be the law for years to come. The scuba companies that "enforce" these types of policies do so because of a couple of "lucky" things in their favor.......1) no scuba store has the money and resources to challenge them in court, and 2) most of the dealers LOVE having this excuse, provided to them by the manufacturers, to explain why they will not offer better to their customers.

Phil Ellis

Can't say anything regarding point 2, you may be right. But as to enforcing their policy, they have a number of ways to do that. While they can't PREVENT the retailer from selling below their policy, they can pick and choose their channels of distribution. They can't be FORCED to continue with a retailer and they don't need a reason.

As to your gray market point obviously, if they aren't an authorized dealer (and they clearly say they're not) they're getting the equipment from somewhere so it MUST be gray market. Or are you suggesting the ScubaPro sells to them directly even though they are not an authorized dealer?

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

They buy their products from dealers that will sell to them....Case closed!! These dealers sometimes get caught when the Manuf. buys the product from LP and they check the serial number to see where it came from......Some Manufs. stop selling to the dealer that sells to LP, others slap them on the wrist.....the dealer makes a bit of money from LP and LP makes a little money from divers.......the mystery is closed