In front of a difficult question:

[Suunto Old]

So, here I am again and asking your help with this question about BCD or BP/wings for my first setup, and this question is almost tearing me apart right now.

So far, I have purchased myself a new drysuit (procean, with two pockets attached) and an Apex TX50 regulator (it first had a longhose setup, but then one of the shops instructrors simply bulldozed thru my idea using the longhose on my primary and bungeeing the octo on my neck, saying that "You don't need longhoses.." and "that setup is dangerous mix of tec and rec because you have the octo on your neck colored brightly so that ppl will go for it rather than your primary.." )

As I asked him about what kind of BC I should buy for my first setup he said that "buy a regular jacket BCD". The other instructor says that I should "go straight for the gold" and to use the longhose setup and buy a BP with Pioneer wing, and third one won't care. Now I'm ->

:boom: Let's make few things perfectly clear :boom:

:boom:I don't want to pretend I am somesort of tech diver: I lack the skills and experience, so I'm not a wannabe of anykind.


:boom:I want a simple, streamlined, SAFE and most of all, USABLE and DURABLE setup.


options are:

JS200 Saturn jacket style BC, manufactured by IST.
DUI Delta back buoyancy BC
Halcyon BP with Pioneer single wing and adapter.


Now, this is really cracking my skull, as I know both of these guys and they are far the best divers I have seen, so I can't simply rule one opinion out, and me myself, well, I don't simply know what to do. This is really cracking me!!

 

[Scubaroo]

Try and borrow a backplate for a dive - see if you like it. I think they're the ducks' nuts for drysuit diving (which means "it's a good thing" )

What's your current octopus? If it's another TX reg, simply switch the colored faceplates around so that the yellow one is on your primary. Your dive buddy should know that you're donating from the mouth if you have a regular buddy anyway, color won't matter - it's the one with the bubbles that matters

 

[MikeFerrara]

Tell that idiot that one of the good things about the system (long hose and bungied backup) is it doesn't rely on color to work.

Tell him that color disapears with dept and it can't be seen in a silt out anyway. Tell him that you always have a functioning reg in the middle of your face and if he needs air that's a good place to look regardless of what color it is.

Tell him that if it's done right even color blind people can dive.

 

[Suunto Old]

yup, my octo is also a TX reg(what's the mark, TX40?), and I also thought about switching the faceplates.

The guy who sold me the reg (same guy who says that I should buy a BP) says that all this is just in my head, ie. a mental block.

It's just that, well, hm.
well, put it this way: When I bought that reg and got overruled by one of the instructors I had this strange kind of gut feeling that "Hm, yknow, maybe this guy is right, he IS FAR more experienced than me, so, he must be right. Bah, to hell with longhoses..."

and then afterwards I had this "what if" -feeling. What if someone really needs air bad, and my octo can't reach? would longhose be safer? what if I lose my primary and get entangled somehow, and can't reach for my shoulder to get my octo? What then? Are longhoses really only for tekkies?

 

[Scubaroo]

Suunto once bubbled...
Are longhoses really only for tekkies?

Absolutely not.

 

[jbd]

the long hose and bungied octo with BP/wings are for all intents and purposes mandatory for the cavers and wreck penetrators. Don't consider either of these activities unless you have the gear they use.

For openwater diving the long hose with bungied octo is optional. All the standard gear that you can buy anywhere will work as will the BP/wings with long hose and bungied octo.

In a nutshell--the tekkies gear will work everywhere; the standard stuff won't.

Having said that, I do really like my jacket style BC and other standard stuff. Although I kind of would like to switch to a 5 foot hose and bungie the octo.

 

[Laser]

I think you see where you poll is going.

 

[JohnF]

I'm hardly a tekky, or a seasoned pro, but a couple of years ago I became smitten with the funny looking gear my friend wore when he took me for a little cavern dive. I've always been a gearpig with whatever I take up. I modified my motorcycles, my snowmobiles and my cars. Then I started making my own golf clubs, and then I took up diving.

Well, this funny looking gear caught my fancy and I started asking questions on .... dare I say it? .... rec.scuba, and the answers I got, besides being insulting, rude and often offensive, steered me towards the Hoggy config, and the DIR protocols for safer diving, much to the chagrin of some of my Strokier cyberfriends.

Okay, so I didn't become a GUE model, or even a GI3 wannabe, but I did come up with a reasonably good facsimile of a Hoggy setup, 7' primary hose and all. And you know what? I like it, a lot. No more sideways pulling on the reg which makes the long hose worthwhile in itself. I like the feel of the bp/wing setup, so much so that I now own a couple of wings, one DR RecWing for cold water singles and small doubles, and one Halcyon 27# single (hopefully soon to be augmented by an Oxycheq single wing with a tad more lift for our cold northern waters), a couple of Scott Koplin's SS plates including one of the new travel plates which I discovered will carry doubles comfortably, a few of Scott's STA's including one filled with lead to work like a keel-weight in the cold water.

When I wore this reg on a boat in Grand Cayman the first time, I took some flak from the Captain/operator for being "wunna them thar cave divers" which I vehemently denied, admitting only to having done one lousy little cavern dive. Well, he watched me pretty close for the first dive, but after that he pretty much gave me free rein for the next two weeks, so apparently I passed scrutiny. It must have been the gear though, for Heaven knows, I'm no great shakes as a diver.

What I like best about the gear, besides the long hose and the fact that it stirs up a little discussion on dive boats, is the flexibility and the utility. I now have a system which I can easily adapt to any kind of diving. For example ... I can easily switch from singles to my soon-to-be doubles set. I can switch from warm to cold water without adding a ton of lead to my weight belt, rather I add it up higher on my spine where it's more useful. I have a snug fitting very adjustable rig that seems more a part of me than my vest-style bcd ever did. On top of it all I have a dive gearpig's dream, a kit that I can play with and change as the spirit moves me, or just leave in the form that's currently working well and enjoy my diving.

In a nutshell, it's more fun and more flexible for divers who aren't sure what their diving future holds for them. And it travels well.

JohnF

 

[herman]

I am not a big fan of the BP/wing, I just don't find them any better than my BC for the diving I mostly do, warm shallow reefs. I also find my curent BC more comfortable. But given the choices you have, I would go with the BP myself. I much prefer a back inflate to jacket types and as BCs go, Halcyon gear is first class.

I am no tech diver by any means. I have no interest in caves or deeps dives but I do use a 5 ft hose and a bungied octo. The 5ft hose is just more comfortable (the Halcyon hoses are fairly soft and flexable), donation of it in an OOA is easier, finding the bungied octo is easier and most likely the OOA diver is going for your primary anyway. If you have never tried a long hose, give them a try. They elminate the tug on the reg that a standard hose has. I had to have one for a cavern class I took and have not gone back. There is a little different procedure to donate it but it's not rocket science. I would suggest you find someone who dives a long hose (and knows what they are doing) and get them to show you how.

 

[HammerNoMore]

Seacur once bubbled...
I'm hardly a tekky, or a seasoned pro, but a couple of years ago I became smitten with the funny looking gear my friend wore when he took me for a little cavern dive.

Great advice. John has always been one of the most reasonable voices in the DIR/anti-DIR debates.

I would suggest you go to the GUE site and read about why they think each of their equipment choices are important and then adopt the ones you agree with.