Inadequate Training

[MikeFerrara]

Danial -- re TSandM's twice out of gas statement -- no, she has NEVER run out of gas (I think the lowest she's ever breathed a tank down was to about 400 PSI). I think she's referring to a couple of times doing valve drills where she's screwed up and shut off the reg she's breathing by mistake AFTER shutting off the other reg -- thus she found herself "out of gas" while underwater.

Once my wife and I decided to practice valve drills at the same time which is not a good idea. She shut all her valves off without turning any back on. She came to me looking for gas when all I had on was my necklaced backup on a short hose, which I tore off my neck and gave to her loosing my mask in the process.

 

[northen diver]

I'm nearly finished with my OW course. Last week we worked on shared air ascents. I asked the instructor if he would cut off my air underwater and then I would commence with sharing my buddy's air to simulate a more realistic experience. He declined. I am constantly feeling like the training is inadequate and geared so that everyone can become a diver. I feel that in the case of a real emergency the majority of my class would panic and drown. This is ENTIRELY my opinion and I am not criticizing the PADI training methods however I just want to hear what you have to say about training methods.

Ciao,
Collin

Yeah, I know what ya mean. I just finished getting my A license with the USPA (skydiving) and I tried to talk the instructor into disabling my main chute so that I can deploy my reserve at 5000 feet. He refused....Pssstt, some people.

 

[jon m]

you can always turn off your own air, just make sure you let your buddy know...

 

[letsgodiving]

you can always turn off your own air, just make sure you let your buddy know...

It is more beneficial if your buddy does it without your knowledge for two reasons; one he gets to feel what it is like when the air runs out; and its just more fun.

 

[daniel f aleman]

Well, I have shut off my valves a few times too...

 

[nereas]

Once my wife and I decided to practice valve drills at the same time which is not a good idea. She shut all her valves off without turning any back on. She came to me looking for gas when all I had on was my necklaced backup on a short hose, which I tore off my neck and gave to her loosing my mask in the process.

That sounds like an exciting drill !

What is the hand signal for "you go first"?

 

[ronbeau]

Your points are all well taken, RJP. That is precisely why the shut-off drill is controversial.

On the other hand, the benefit of the air-shut off drill is to teach the diver what it is like to sense their air running out, so that they then recognize this in the future, and remember the drill, being thus pre-programmed, and are not taken by surprise, nor panic.

It's a two edged argument. I know SSI likes the drill, and I know NAUI does not. I forgot where YMCA comes out on this.

I stand corrected with respect to PADI, thanks to the PADI OWSIs who have contributed.

My NAUI OW course included an air-shut-off drill. The instructor came up behind us, turned of the air, waited for an OOA sign and turned the air back on.

 

[jbd]

My NAUI OW course included an air-shut-off drill. The instructor came up behind us, turned of the air, waited for an OOA sign and turned the air back on.

I teach pretty much the same as the air depletion drill described by the PADI folks. I also do the same during the OW cert dives. To date my observation has been that my students realize their air is off before they draw the last breath and have already gotten their buddy's attention and signaled OOA. They establish the airsharing procedure during which time I have already turned the air back on.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I have never had OOA due to failed hoses, o-rings or regs, but I do think running out due failed gauge gives more warning than shutting off the valve. The only real way to experience running out is to run out. I am also sure the sensation differs with depth and tank size. I have only experienced running out with 80's and 100' at 15' or less, and it is much different than turning off the valve. If you really want to know what it's like, take a seperate nearly used tank to depth and breath it down. Use a tank with expiring vip, just in case it gets wet, but all my empties have had enough air to dy an Aqua-Lung water cap.

 

[dark_basic]

Psh how weak sauce.

Yeah, I know what ya mean. I just finished getting my A license with the USPA (skydiving) and I tried to talk the instructor into disabling my main chute so that I can deploy my reserve at 5000 feet. He refused....Pssstt, some people.