Instructors - Agencies Split from overweight

[The Chairman]

OTOH, you have made use of character assassination instead of actual discussion. That limits discussion.

Walter, you are just seeing implications and accusations that are not there. I would dare say, that what has been leveled at the agencies in this and other threads FAR EXCEEDS what I have done here. However, if you feel that I have crossed the TOS, please report every instance. The mods and advisors know that they will bear no repercussions should they feel that some of my posts should be censored. It's already been done in this thread (though I disagreed with them).

What I am hearing, is that you don't like an impassioned response. Too bad that.

 

[loki_hd]

First off, while a lot of people like to bash agencies, your problem here was not the agency you got your certification through, but rather the instructor and/or the dive shop.

Agreed. But,I did not bash, merely state facts. The problem I underscored was one that had been introduced earlier, that places like South Florida seem a petri dish for shops which just shove people through, regardless of safety.

Secondly, if you had a different teacher at every pool session, does this mean that at just one of your pool sessions it was the teacher's first class?

I still wouldn't be able to tell you what was going on there. He told me it was. He still isn't legal to drink as well. The comment about a different teacher at each pool sessions goes to underscore the problem with the demand overtaking stability and safety. The agency still let this guy use this 'class' as his first. While at the same time, each pool session, a different person was also using this opportunity to get licensed to teach.

"How long is it going to take?" Find out if your instructor is brand spanking new, what is their teaching style, are they truely interested in helping you become a safe diver, or are they just going through the motions?

I did not do that, this is my fault. To be fair (to myself), when I went into the dive shop, I had spoken to someone who was quite more mature and had clearly been teaching there a while. I assumed that he would be teaching the course. I was mistaken.

 

[DiverBizz]

It is difficult for a person who is interested in SCUBA to make sure they ask all the right questions of their instructor to be, if they are new and have no friends who dive. I was very lucky and got a great instructor. He inspired me to become a great diver...I am working on that goal, life-long learner for me.

 

[daniel f aleman]

From the PADI 2007 manual:

Swim underwater with scuba equipment while maintaining control of both direction and depth, properly equalizing the ears and mask to accommodate depth changes.

A diver needs to be able to do such in the NAUI courses that I DM, generally, I'm the one that makes sure of it.

 

[Walter]

From the PADI 2007 manual
Swim underwater with scuba equipment while maintaining control of both
direction and depth, properly equalizing the ears and mask to accommodate
depth changes.

Sounds good as far as it goes. Where is it? Is it in bold?

 

[Walter]

Walter, you are just seeing implications and accusations that are not there. I would dare say, that what has been leveled at the agencies in this and other threads FAR EXCEEDS what I have done here. However, if you feel that I have crossed the TOS, please report every instance. The mods and advisors know that they will bear no repercussions should they feel that some of my posts should be censored. It's already been done in this thread (though I disagreed with them).

What I am hearing, is that you don't like an impassioned response. Too bad that.

They are there. I quoted them for you. What has been leveled at the agencies are facts, not empty emotional wind.

If that's what you are hearing, you aren't listening. You know me. You know I am as passionate as anyone. Get as passionate as you like, but don't make up things that aren't there. Don't mistake passion for facts. You have been ignoring points you can't answer and have been trying to twist the meaning of other people's words. Passion is a good thing when it supports your facts. When it's empty of all substance, it's still empty. In this thread and the slipping thread, yours has been empty of substance. This is not like you. What's changed?

 

[ScubaRandy]

Sounds good as far as it goes. Where is it? Is it in bold?

Yes it is in bold in the Confined Water Dive 1 section of the Open Water Instructor manual. Our friend with the 3/4th censored name cut and pasted this from the Digital Instructor Manual.... In it, bold is in blue...

My condolences to the family of this person...

Randy

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think they should but but standards don't require them to.

Bull. NAUI requires that I do just this.

But PADI standards do not.

Technically to "fail" a student who meets the performance requirements set forth in the standards is, in itself, a violation of the standards.

More Bull. NAUI tells me if they aren't fit to dive with my grandma, they are not fit to dive.

Now there is an objective course requirement for you. How do you measure this anyway. In any case, PADI standards don't mention Grandma.

I think you would be better able to discuss this if you got a copy of the standards and read them.

This has NOTHING to do with the death of this panicked diver and yet you keep trying to prove that no agency has sufficient standards.

No, it has to do with his comments. I don't have to prove anything. It's all in the standards for the reading.

 

[The Chairman]

Get as passionate as you like, but don't make up things that aren't there.

You are the ones who make the assertion that the standards don't support being neutral. There it is, in BLACK AND WHITE and you still are having a problem with it. Do you argue this passionately with the sign post as you take the wrong way home? It is OBVIOUS that the facts have been systematically ignored by you here.

Now the dynamic trio are engaged in trying to prove that the standard doesn't mean what it says it means. I would say quattro, but one is not even an instructor. Instead of being GLAD that the standard is there, we are now delving into semantics or asking whether it is "bold" or not. It's either there or it's not. The standards require depth control or they don't.

Agencies and instructors, are not as incompetent as you, Thalassamania, Mike and Sparticle would have us believe. No, they don't teach the way you do. No, they don't necessarily emphasize what you emphasize. Most of the instructors that I have met are just as impassioned as you or I about teaching the sport. Tearing them and the agencies down does not make you a better instructor.

 

[The Chairman]

Now there is an objective course requirement for you. How do you measure this anyway.

Is this why you don't teach? Because you can't assertain who has a safe attitude and who does not? How does ANYONE objectify an attitude? You can't. But that's no reason to not look at it and having an unsafe attitude will stop you from passing my course.