Is it DCS?

[crispos]

Tim, all the best. Good you went to the chamber.

 

[ArcticDiver]

Tim the benefit of your posts is starting already.

You said you also used an Oceanic computer and that computer never went into deco. Which computer? Since I don't have every model memorized, which deco model is in that computer? How old is the computer? Last, a stupid question maybe, was it working?

I dive an Oceanic air integrated. I've gone into deco with it with no trouble, so far. If you had a problem maybe I need to reevaluate how I use this machine.

 

[DandyDon]

Tim the benefit of your posts is starting already.

You said you also used an Oceanic computer and that computer never went into deco. Which computer? Since I don't have every model memorized, which deco model is in that computer? How old is the computer? Last, a stupid question maybe, was it working?

I dive an Oceanic air integrated. I've gone into deco with it with no trouble, so far. If you had a problem maybe I need to reevaluate how I use this machine.

I knew this was going to happen. Oh well, here I go...

There's certainly nothing wrong with Oceanic computers. They are every bit as conservative as Padi tables, although vary from them a bit - certainly a lot more conservative than Navy tables. But you can make yours more conservative if you'd like, in the settings.

At the time of Tim's original post, I suggested he call DAN for a 2-way conversation, which was not possible here on SB. I figured that if a diver goes to the Coz Chamber with a DAN card and a sore muscle, he's going to get a chamber ride or two, DAN's going to get a bill, and the diver is going to have his vacation interrupted - all perhaps needlessly?!

He didn't call DAN, and the rest went as expected...

I had the exact same symptom last month in Key Largo, figured I'd strained myself a bit on the ladder, but called DAN. After a consultation, I took aspirin, and watched for any change. No other problems, so I kept diving - with no problems.

Tim's experience may well have been tottally different, and it's good to be safe rather than sorry. Still, while I'm glad that the Chamber exists in Cozumel, but I wouldn't go to it until I called DAN first.

PS: Oceanic manuals do instruct not surfacing until the N2 load is in the green. Don't know what Tim's said...?

 

[ArcticDiver]

I knew this was going to happen. Oh well, here I go...

T alluded to the idea that maybe his Oceanic stayed in no-deco while the other computer put him into deco, which he then cleared prior to surfacing.

That piece of info was an integal part of his decision making. So, I want to know the details so I can better evaluate my decision making.

If your point is that somehow sharing that information is somehow wrong or ignorant; well your are entitled to your opinion. I don't happen to share it.

 

[richhagelin]

Tim,

Thanks for your posts. I've been putting off my nitrox course. No more. I'm going to finish it before heading south next month and then diving nitrox to air limits from now on.

Thanks for the wake-up call for some of us who are "chronologically challenged"

Sorry to hear you had to sit on the beach. Just remember, sitting on the beach is still better than not being in Coz.

Rich Hagelin

 

[pipedope]

If you dive, you are at risk of DCI.

Make and model of computer, table, or other schedualing system used do not cause or prevent DCI.

DCI is rare but WHEN it happens respond NOW.
Get on O2.
Call DAN.

It will help for all divers to learn the 5 minute neuro exam and USE IT.
It is a big help when your buddy says, "Man, your left hand is weaker than it was this morning. WE are going to the chamber."

You can do it ALL RIGHT and still get DCI.
It is not about blame for the table, computer or diver but getting treatment and staying healthy.

 

[ArcticDiver]

The last few posts have tried to move the after injury treatment to the forefront. Certainly once injured by a DCI or any other cause prompt treatment is appropriate. But it is even better to take whatever reasonable steps one can to not get injured in the first place. That is the focus of my questions.

In this particular case Tim was diving with multiple computers. One of which, if I understand his posts, never showed any decompression problems at all. That certainly had an impact on his decision making. From after the dive facts it was an adverse impact.

If his Oceanic is like mine there is no ability to put a Conservativeness Factor into the computer itself. So, maybe it would be appropriate for me to learn from his experience and use larger margins when I interpret mine. But to do that I need certain information from Tim.

Will keeping within computer limits, or table limits, guarantee not having a DCI? Nope, but one can intelligently bias the known factors in the diver's favor.

Posts lambasting him for treatment delay due to denial are counterproductive in this effort.

 

[pipedope]

You can use a conservative computer, stay hydrated, do slow ascents etc. and still get bent.

Yes! Please use prudent procedures to prevent DCI but when you present symptoms you MUST ACT.

This is not to lambast ANY diver for denial and delay in seeking treatment. Far more divers have waited far longer.

My POINT is to TRY and FIGHT THE DENIAL.
The sooner you get treatment the better the outcome.

I want to thank ALL divers who share their DCI stories.

DCI is a lot like huricanes.
People who have been through one before act much sooner on the next.

 

[ArcticDiver]

You can use a conservative computer, stay hydrated, do slow ascents etc. and still get bent.

Yes! Please use prudent procedures to prevent DCI but when you present symptoms you MUST ACT.

This is not to lambast ANY diver for denial and delay in seeking treatment. Far more divers have waited far longer.

My POINT is to TRY and FIGHT THE DENIAL.
The sooner you get treatment the better the outcome.

I want to thank ALL divers who share their DCI stories.

DCI is a lot like huricanes.
People who have been through one before act much sooner on the next.

Hopefully we haven't denigrated into a silty atmosphere here. On the basis that we haven't the following is offered.

While what you say may be literally true that a person "can" get bent, following an intelligently conservative dive profile reduces the odds significantly. One of the factors in biasing a dive profile in the diver's favor is interpreting tables, whether electronic or manual.

In this case two different dive models were being used, since there were two different brands computers. From the postings it appears that one indicated the dive was much more adventerous than the other. So, how to apply the different indications to the situation was diver judgement. The fact that one stayed in the "green" throughout the dives I'm sure was a significant factor in that diver judgement.

As for denial. I've reread the posts. I'm far from sure denial was a factor here. There was a question. That is why the thread was started in the first place. I've had the same kind of question. Hmmm, that itch I have; is it DCS? Or, is it just dry skin? Hmmm, that joint pain; is it DCS? Or, is it just a hang over from the load I carried a couple days ago? To me asking the question is not denial. It is intelligently beginning the medical assessment process.

Now, if the assessment comes up DCS, or probably DCS and the person doesn't seek medical help, THAT is Denial, with a capital D.

Peace Brother.

 

[DandyDon]

I do not own stock in Oceanic (although I've considered buying, as the company has great equipment at reasonable prices!) but I feel compelled to defend the company's computers here, as some people are going to misunderstand.

Oceanic makes sells fine computers, that work well - every bit as conservative as PADI tables, if the diver knows and work his computer correctly?! One can certainly purchase other brands that cost more and/or are more conservative, but that doesn't make Oceanic "bad" any more than PADI is "bad." Indeed, currently offered Ocenics can be User Set to more conservative profiles, so these more economical machines are able of being more conservative than PADI, if this is what the diver desires - certainly better than diving without a computer when the diver cannot afford the higher priced model. So, if more conservative is what one wants, for less money, Oceanic is till a good choice.

But let's look at this misunderstanding here...

Hopefully we haven't denigrated into a silty atmosphere here. On the basis that we haven't the following is offered.

While what you say may be literally true that a person "can" get bent, following an intelligently conservative dive profile reduces the odds significantly. One of the factors in biasing a dive profile in the diver's favor is interpreting tables, whether electronic or manual.

In this case two different dive models were being used, since there were two different brands computers. From the postings it appears that one indicated the dive was much more adventerous than the other. So, how to apply the different indications to the situation was diver judgement. The fact that one stayed in the "green" throughout the dives I'm sure was a significant factor in that diver judgement.

This is the erroneous type of analysis that I'm defending against here, in that Tim never said that his Oceanic stayed in the "green" throughout the dives, not at all...

I certainly didn't expect it. Here are four aggravating factors in my mind: 1) four drinks the night before - nothing out of hand but I abandoned my usual habit of drinking a glass of water for every alcoholic beverage. Still drank water before bed and water and juice in the morning; 2) I worked out the day before I started diving; 3) I had two cups of very strong coffee the morning of the dive on the second day; 4) I dove my computer to the limits - the second dive on each day was a minor deco dive (five minute obligation at 15 feet the first day and a three minute the second day). Note that I dive two computers. MY Suunto is very conservative and it was in deco mode. The Oceanic I use never went into deco and said I was fine the whole time. I think I am going to scrap the Oceanic and just use the Suunto from here on. Add up all of the foregoing and I still would not have expected a hit. C'est la vie.

I don't know Tim or how well he understand his two different brands of computers, but his words were "The Oceanic I use never went into deco and said I was fine the whole time." The Oceanic could have 2 bubbles of Yellow Zone showing when the other went into Deco, for all I know from this, and could have still had 1 bubble of Yellow when the other cleared, for all we know here. I did some Sims with my Oceanic Versa Pro this morning, and while Oceanic strongly recommends returning to Green Zone before surfacing, those Yellow Zone bubbles can take a long time to clear.

I am certainly not suggesting that Tim was wrong in any area here, but his diving was aggressive, and from the statements given, we know only that his Suunto "cleared" and that his Oceanic was not in the Red Zone.

And all this is giving the benefit of other possible doubts, that both computers were set correctly - like on Air mode, and both computers were worn on every dive. Probably, but this is only an assumption, and I don't want to bother him with questions. He may want to respond to this, but that's his option.

So, if a diver can afford a Oceanic, but not a Suunto, yet wants more conservatism - please wear what you can afford, and set the machine to be more conservative. Those settings are in the manual; if you don't understand them, you need to.

And finally, at the first indication that something may not be right, call DAN, Collect at the number on your card - which I hope you keep handy at all times. Neither wait and bluff, which can let things get worse, nor go into a clinic with an insurnace card and a sore shoulder, as the Chamber ride is then a given.

The above is one cowboy's opinion only, but truth is important. Thanks