Is it possible to travel responsibly (during a pandemic)?

[Blackcrusader]

No need to repeat the wall of text. You asked why anyone should be concerned about others traveling. I explained it. Taiwan's government was/is on the ball. Other governments are not, so that's where the worry comes from. If your country had excess of 500,000 deaths, you too, would be worried about people traveling. Yeah, travel can be done safely, but not everyone can do it. It only takes one to spread to many.

I believe the numbers are a bit inflated, many people had illnesses they were dying from the virus just pushed them over the edge. Which is why the overall death rate is super low as healthy people are not dying in large numbers. The overall numbers of people dying in the USA annually has not dramatically increased.

 

[KenGordon]

15% not dramatic?

US deaths in 2020 top 3 million, by far most ever counted

meanwhile take a look at this CDC chart.

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19

which shows excess deaths clearly following the pandemic pattern.

As well as the minority who die immediately there is a big population who have long term damage that will kill them earlier than might otherwise have been expected. I don’t think there will be any matching trough in total death numbers in future years.

 

[divinh]

I can't wait when people excuse the next pandemic death numbers as "they're just the compromised people from Covid-19"... the long haulers that are "just like with the flu"...

 

[Dan]

Yes, I can read. What is your point?

My point is this is just a guideline, NOT a requirement or government rule that you must follow. That is CDC guidelines, not say Costa Rica or Mexico or Belize guidelines, where I was traveling to. The pandemic situation is very fluid. Each country has its statistics on its pandemic situation. Unfortunately we, as Americans, are the worst, the king of the world in this category. If we travel overseas, we are actually going to safer environment.

Our live is full of risk, but we manage that risk. Everyone has different values of risks vs. rewards. At some point in the past it was good to follow such CDC guidelines when the pandemic at the worst point. I didn’t travel in USA, nor overseas for 10 months last year, canceling about 8 trips.

When each countries is starting to gain control of its pandemic situation and began to open up for tourism with some reasonable restrictions to control the spreading of the virus such as requiring each traveler to get negative PCR and COVID-19 rider in travel insurance, I resume my overseas travel. I went to Cocos in December. The Costa Rica guidelines is what I followed, not CDC.

I saw the opportunity to travel again after 10 month of self quarantine. I took the risk. I proof to myself that I could manage that risk. I didn’t contract the virus during the trips. I self quarantined for 2 weeks after I was back home by not seeing anyone even my own family and close friends. I traveled again to Mexico (Socorro) in January and to Belize in February. And again still COVID-19 free to this date. I know you all think that I’m just lucky three times in a row. We’ll see what happens to my 4th one next week to Maldives.

You, @MichaelMc @KenGordon @Altamira @Pressurehead and many others that I missed to mention, are just like hound dogs seeing fresh meat, ganging up on me, looking into any fallacy in my travel and pointing this & that. Yea, I get it. There are higher risks traveling at this pandemic time, but there are risks in everyday life. We need to manage the risks vs. the rewards. I even include 2 weeks or more possibly staying overseas due to contracting the virus or required quarantine if I unfortunately incurred. I have annual DiveAssure travel insurance with COVID-19 rider on it. Are you planning to do the same when you are in Bonaire?

So I just want to make sure you walk the talk, not a hypocrite.

 

[Dan]

I won't travel for foreseeable future but if others wish to do so why should I worry about it? I will get vaccinated but towards the end of the year most likely. I can wait. Vaccinations will not stop people becoming infected nor spreading the virus. If you travel then you assume there is a risk of becoming infected as other people have. One member wrote on here about how she traveled to Maldives and all the people with her got the virus and had to cancel flights and do quarantine before being allowed to leave. Lost of additional costs involved.

Good for you.

Maldives accident is a good & timely lesson to have as I'm going there next week. We need to have the right attitude, preparation and discipline toward avoiding contracting the virus. I also add contigency plan for staying there few weeks longer in case of I get sick or need to be quarantine, including travel insurance with COVID-19 rider.

After the accident, everyone would be more diligent in following the protocol. It would very bad for their business to repeat the story.

 

[Dan]

Many people that have flown to Taiwan had negative PCR tests but were found to be infected during quarantine. It got so bad Taiwan stopped anyone coming in from Indonesia even though PCR tests were done as nearly everyone ended up being infected.

PCR test cannot show that someone will not always show up as being infected.

They were probably living in crowded place and didn't have the right attitude, discipline and understanding how the virus can spread.

 

[Miyaru]

Traveling responsibly is taking a new approach in Europe. Several countries have been discussing a vaccination passport that will allow travel based on being vaccinated.

Most countries have been vaccinating the elderly, high risk people and health workers. For example my 71 year old dad will probably get a vaccine coming July, while a 36 year old morbid obese colleague will get a vaccine this week.
So those allowed to travel will not be the healthy young population, as this group will probably have to wait till fall before they can go for a vaccination.

Coming summer, the tourism industry might have to focus on the high-risk and elderly, while the healthy majority will still be confined.

 

[tursiops]

So I just want to make sure you walk the talk, not a hypocrite.

Thanks, Mom.

 

[KDAD]

Is it possible to travel responsibly (during a pandemic)?

I probably posted this somewhere above and elsewhere but wanted to again provide my own experience. I went and recounted each airline flight that I took in all of 2020. I had 35 US domestic flights to and from various mid-west locales for work and 2 flights internationally to and from Cancun (Playa del Carmen) for fun/scuba, including all of airports, rental cars, hotels, restaurants, etc. for all of those trips. Many of you know that lately flights have been very full and some airports are getting very crowded.

I have 7 flights so far this year, including 2 internationally. Passport control at both Cancun and Newark in February 2021 when we flew were packed with travelers, several thousand crammed in at Cancun with at least 5 planes all landed around the same time. It certainly was not the ideal situation with a pandemic.

I wore a mask whenever I was not well away from other people. Others did inside of the airports and planes; outside of the airport not too much except in Mexico where locals mostly did and tourists mostly did not.

Based on my Covid-19 free body to-date given the above travel history, my recent second dose of the Moderna vaccine, my wife receiving the second dose, my family's current health status, my risk tolerance, and the current CDC requirement for all air travelers returning to the US to test negative prior to return, my family and I will be traveling at-will within the then-current CDC requirements.

 

[KenGordon]

At some point in the past it was good to follow such CDC guidelines when the pandemic at the worst point.

Are we past the worst?

another graph Coronavirus Graphs: Worldwide Cases and Deaths - Worldometer look at the 7 day average of new cases. Globally we are down maybe 50% since the worst, and still worse than the first wave.

Consider that only a few 10s of million of people have been vaccinated and there is an enormous reserve of people yet to get this disease.

Once vaccinated people take more risks. In Israel they see a spike in infection just after vaccination, previous vaccination programs have demonstrated a similar tendency to take the disease less seriously.

These two things make for perfect conditions to breed something that the vaccines are ineffective for. Luckily they people making the vaccines can knock them up quickly, but getting them deployed to billions of people is still a huge deal.