Is leisurepro.com the best place to buy?

[ScottZeagle]

I don't have any firsthand knowledge of Aqualung or ScubaPros policies, but I would suspect that this applies to "advertised prices". I know that Lary from ScubaToys sells SP, so maybe he will pop in and shed some light on the subject...

Scott

 

[outlawaggie]

I don't have any firsthand knowledge of Aqualung or ScubaPros policies, but I would suspect that this applies to "advertised prices". I know that Lary from ScubaToys sells SP, so maybe he will pop in and shed some light on the subject...

Scott

larry is in italy.

 

[aaronlinder]

awap,
it's possible scubapro et al. will pull the dealership from it's authorized list. this would in effect void the warranty. how can an LDS get around the 10% discount?

crowell,
the "imaginary" trade in sounds like an illegal operation to me. however, if you really did have some old gear to trade in, how much discount are you able to get for it? i wonder if this is dictated by SP et al.?


r.d.009,
you raise an interesting point about buying in bulk. as i understand it, the LDS would not be able to pass the discount on to you. they would merely be able to gain more profit for themselves by buying in bulk. this assumes that they are able to get a discount for bulk buys.
i would guess that they do not get a discount for buying in bulk, as this would defeat one of the purposes of limiting discounts to the final customer to 10%. this has the effect of promoting LDSs in the first place which might be a small shop in northern nowhereland. this way they are not penalized for being small. if bulk buying does give the divestore owner a discount, it seems to be a contradiction in policies.

dscheck,
i suppose the manufacturers are worried about price wars. that is an excellent point. their line is of course that they are able to maintain LDSs thin margins of profit by only allowing 10% discounts across the board. this goes along with their philosophy of a "safe" purchase and all of the issues that go along with that( i.e. local service, proper fit, training, etc.). of course, they benefit through having more trained divers and stores that push their product. they also benefit from higher prices assuming they can maintain a superior product (my research and assumption) and image. of course their image is only heightened in some minds by being elitist when it comes to their discount policy and verboten on-line decrees.

is there a better way for SP et al. to insure quality education, proper fit and service, quality product without demanding 90-100% msrp?

scott,
a quick search on scubatoys website yields three trivial products that are merely "compatible with" scubapro equipment, not scubapro. i bet that if he sells scubapro equipment it comes only as an in-store item and not online. i actually called him as well a week or so ago as it seemed to be an alternative to leisurepro and its supply/quality/warranty conundrum, but larry (or one of his reps.) said that he only sells stuff over the web that comes with a full manufacturer's warranty. thus, he has worked out a deal(maybe anyone can?) with these manufacturers such that they allow internet sales. apparently zeagle allows internet sales and still backs up the warranty? would you say that zeagle is any better or worse for doing so?

through my very novice level research i have come to the conclusion that apeks, scubapro,aqualung,seaquest,dive-rite (at least) are some of the top manufacturers of scuba equip. in terms of quality and service. i am also under the impression that zeagle is a high-quality company. however, while at least SP and AL are sticking together on the discount/warranty policy (i'm not sure about apeks and dive-rite, though dive-rite does allow internet sales through diveriteexpress at least but disparages buying from LP and a few other hoodlums!) zeagle *appears* to have disregarded this policy. are SP and AL just more money-hungry or are they really more safety conscious? if zeagle et al. are gaining more sales and legions by selling every which way but loose, how can SP and AL ignore these policies? are they holding out?

i guess it comes down to asking yourself whether SP et al. quality/service are worth the extra price and whether their sales policy is a higher standard or a devilish marketing ploy. i'm not sure what to believe. i can see it either way i guess, though i want to believe they are in it for the good of the team. it feels like i am turning my nose up at zeagle, which is not a desirable position to be in considering its contributions to quality. of course my LDS only really sells SP et al. goods so i don't have much of a choice.

for the sake of future posts, i should say that i want to support my local shop. i don't think they are gouging me and that the quality is probably worth the price. however, this is interesting to me and i am keeping an open mind as to what to do before deciding. i guess as is with all posts, if you get bored, you can move on, sorry if i'm boring anyone.

 

[Crowell]

crowell,
the "imaginary" trade in sounds like an illegal operation to me. however, if you really did have some old gear to trade in, how much discount are you able to get for it? i wonder if this is dictated by SP et al.?

How can this possibly be illegal? Whatever a store (or any business) is willing to take back as a trade-in, is up to them if they're willing to make that sale at that profit-margin, or even loss if they want to - It's their business. Wal-Mart and Microsoft both very often will sell things at a loss sometimes to drive nearby competitors away, then re-raise the prices when they're the only show around.

Business models aside, my LDS is still charging full-price (and tax on full price), then just giving you a bottom-line markdown on the side. Just like with a car company that offers those "we'll give you $4000 for anything you can drag into our lot" type advertisements and sure enough, they give you $4k for a beat up 1932 totalled out Ford P/U truck with no tires or seats and rusted all the way through the frame. Then the car dealership even incurrs the extra-cost of having it transported to the city dump, but they've sold a car, and at least broke even (or possibly made a couple 1000 if there's manuf. to dealer incentives involved), and have a happy customer that may very well come back and buy again.

Trade in allowances are totally whatever the company wants to charge for stuff. For my LDS, it just happens to put them in line with a lot of prices on the internet. In fact, they've beaten or come within $10 of internet (LP / Diversdirect / ScubaToys) prices on a lot of things for me, and that's good enough for me.

(The other thing that happens, sort-of coincidentally), is if you call them for a price-quote to send you, then try to take that quote to another LDS, it shows them charging MSRP plus trade-in, instead of quoting you a lower price directly. So the other LDS at best is gonna want to see the trade-in and what they'll give for it too ... so to my mind, that's just extremely shrewd politics for the competitive dive shops around here.

 

[scubatoys]

larry is in italy.

Just got back... And we don't sell scubapro on the net. Do I agree with it? No. Do I adhere to it?... Yes.

 

[mtiffee]

Larry sells scubapro but ONLY in-store. He is unwilling to sell online because it violates the "authorized dealer" agreememnt.

Everything you buy off scubatoys.com comes with a full manufacture warranty. And they beat/match Leisurepro prices.

** This thread has been discussed many times- search for leisurepro.

>> looks like Larry responded at the same time I did.

 

[redacted]

Larry sells scubapro but ONLY in-store. He is unwilling to sell online because it violates the "authorized dealer" agreememnt.

Everything you buy off scubatoys.com comes with a full manufacture warranty. And they beat/match Leisurepro prices.

** This thread has been discussed many times- search for leisurepro.

>> looks like Larry responded at the same time I did.

Does Larry beat/match Leisurepro prices on Scubapro products when you make the purchase in-store?

Unfortunately, I strongly suspect that I am going to be disappointed with the answer.

 

[redacted]

awap,
it's possible scubapro et al. will pull the dealership from it's authorized list. this would in effect void the warranty. how can an LDS get around the 10% discount?

If you buy a Scubapro product from an authorized dealer and Scubapro refuses to honor the warrenty because of some future action of that dealer your business agreement with SP should not be changed. But you will have to go somewhere else for swervice. May or may not be a big deal depending on where you live.

I believe I have seen a couple other ways of circumventing the 10% agreement. One is for the LDS to just say it is none of there business and ignore it. If you are a big enough LDS in an area that does not have other SP LDSs, the distributor is unlikely to question one of his main customers. Another is to keep two sets of book. One legal and correct set for the tax man and another for the scubapro cops. The trade-in technique is one of the cleaner ways and shouldn't reqire 2 sets of books. Yet another is to say the equipment was used in classes and was sold as used equipment. This technique would also allow an LDS to sell on the internet without violating the dealer agreement. Ever wonder where the "used for 5 FW dives but looks new" MK25/S600 on ebay are coming from. The LDSs that want to, will find ways to compete with or in the internet and survive. Of course, the new and uninformed customers will continue to be offered a 10% discount on a package deal and most will be thrilled to take it.

 

[Crowell]

I was looking at a ScubaPro Knighthawk new-in-box 2004 model with factory-installed integrated Air2 for $490. I haven't seen them online anywhere, but the BC fit me very well and was comfortable.

The console/regulator setup they were offering me to go with it was a Sherwood Oasis with 3 guage console for $425. All new, all with factory warrently, assembled and tuned before it leaves the shop just like I want it. Is that a good price from an LDS from some of you guys? I was reasonably pleased with it, and it's close enough to internet pricing, plus warranties that I'm willing to buy local for the service and camaraderie. I maintain that if an LDS *wants* to be competitive, they can be.

 

[mtiffee]

Does Larry beat/match Leisurepro prices on Scubapro products when you make the purchase in-store?

Unfortunately, I strongly suspect that I am going to be disappointed with the answer.

Nobody can sell Scubapro products at Leisurepro prices outright. But there are creative ways to work around that. If you are buying a non scubapro BCD that retails for $400.00 and a scubapro reg. that retails for $400, sometimes you can fudge the price of the BCD to make up the difference.

I still don't understand what's so great about scubapro though anyway, i've used lots of regs, and yes they're nice, but i've used much nicer. I love the way the atomic regs breath.