photohikedive
Guest
my boss has a healthways reg, that I have almost talked him into selling to me.
I would like to have it converted for my primary reg.
I would like to have it converted for my primary reg.
Just got 2 "New" Double-Hose Regs!!
- Thread starter Peter Guy
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Peter, bud, you have a problem I cannot help you with. Funny, my wife dives with me. I have run into such things, bias, before. Once people actually dive with me and my junk they learn quickly:
1) I am very fast when I need to be and I don't fool around much
2)I never miss a dive due to illness or equipment malfuction
3)I am always ready to go and squared away and first in the water and last out
4) I know what I am doing and that anything they think they can do I actually can.
5) I am very safe
If your buddy is so biased perhaps like an airplane friend of mine, he had a sign on his bird, wife needed, must like airplanes. Something like that---lol--just kidding, I am sure you guys will works this out with some counciling. LOL
Well, I have said all I can or want to, any questions on the subject that require answers beyond urban legend please PM me.
The plastic un-Legendary I got breathed poorely also. I took it back and they did something to it and now it breaths fine. I wonder why they are delievering these in a detuned state? Usually I do my own work but since it was new I felt they should repair it or give me one that did not breath like 1960's Healthways ScubStar single hose.
Collectors collect anything but for purposes of actually diving then only USD Mistral, DA and Royal AquaMaster and their Voit equivilents are worth fooling with beyond curiosity and nostalgia (this is opinion obviously)
N, swimming off into the blue
1) I am very fast when I need to be and I don't fool around much
2)I never miss a dive due to illness or equipment malfuction
3)I am always ready to go and squared away and first in the water and last out
4) I know what I am doing and that anything they think they can do I actually can.
5) I am very safe
If your buddy is so biased perhaps like an airplane friend of mine, he had a sign on his bird, wife needed, must like airplanes. Something like that---lol--just kidding, I am sure you guys will works this out with some counciling. LOL
Well, I have said all I can or want to, any questions on the subject that require answers beyond urban legend please PM me.
The plastic un-Legendary I got breathed poorely also. I took it back and they did something to it and now it breaths fine. I wonder why they are delievering these in a detuned state? Usually I do my own work but since it was new I felt they should repair it or give me one that did not breath like 1960's Healthways ScubStar single hose.
Collectors collect anything but for purposes of actually diving then only USD Mistral, DA and Royal AquaMaster and their Voit equivilents are worth fooling with beyond curiosity and nostalgia (this is opinion obviously)
N, swimming off into the blue
photohikedive
Guest
this is where one might say.....
don't feed the trolls
on a seperate note
Nemrod, I noticed you like diving in my neck of the woods. if you get down to this part of the state with your vintage gear, and I ever get my camera housing fixed, I would like to get some shots.
don't feed the trolls
on a seperate note
Nemrod, I noticed you like diving in my neck of the woods. if you get down to this part of the state with your vintage gear, and I ever get my camera housing fixed, I would like to get some shots.
I own two of the standard new Mistrals and just ordered a special edition one in the wooden box.
The special edition is the only regulator I own that will probably never see water.
The other two will be used for experimenting and for parts.
I will be using the first stage of one of them for my save a dive regulator I always carry. My safe a dive/ spare regulator have been used by my buddies; most recently to replace a friend's free flowing Apeks that was only 9 month old. He actually ended up borrowing my experimental Royal Aqua Master with the experimental Phoenix. I didnt tell him it was an experimental regulator until after the dive. He totally enjoyed it.
The new Mistral first stage is the same as the Titan which in turn is the same components as a Royal Aqua Master. IMHO it is the most reliable balanced first stage ever made.
From the parts regulator I may try the mouthpiece with my vintage hoses. I think the mouthpiece has some potential.
My other new Mistral I will probably dive it with the second stage mounted on my chest similar to Cousteau and the Calypso divers used to us it with the hydrodynamic suit and in other occasions. With this configuration, the inhalation should be far superior to any other system, but I am just playing and experimenting with it. I probably wont dive it much.
The only time I actually dove a new Mistral I did think it performed fairly well. The hoses are definitely buoyant, but that is because they are using re-breather hoses. A re-breather with the counter-lung doesnt have the pneumatic advantage of a regulator with its venturi. Therefore they use very large hoses that are not necessary in a well design regulator.
The diaphragm in the new Mistral is small like a single hose regulator, about 2.8 inches rather than the 4.2 inches in diameter on a vintage double hose. That is a major mechanical disadvantage of the new Mistral and the second stage demand valve is not pneumatically balanced or incorporates any other mechanism to compensate for this shortcoming. It is kind of like picking the worst of both worlds.
Any of my well tuned RAM and Phoenix RAMs with the new silicon diaphragms will outperform the new Mistral and most any regulator modern or vintage. The mechanical advantage of the large diaphragm allows a very simple, highly reliable mechanism, with performance that is hard to beat. I have all of my RAMs and Phoenix RAMs consistently set at 0.5inWC.
Over all the new Mistral is not a bad regulator, but in comparison to a Royal Aqua Master or a Phoenix Royal Aqua Master it leaves a lot to be desired.
The special edition is the only regulator I own that will probably never see water.
The other two will be used for experimenting and for parts.
I will be using the first stage of one of them for my save a dive regulator I always carry. My safe a dive/ spare regulator have been used by my buddies; most recently to replace a friend's free flowing Apeks that was only 9 month old. He actually ended up borrowing my experimental Royal Aqua Master with the experimental Phoenix. I didnt tell him it was an experimental regulator until after the dive. He totally enjoyed it.
The new Mistral first stage is the same as the Titan which in turn is the same components as a Royal Aqua Master. IMHO it is the most reliable balanced first stage ever made.
From the parts regulator I may try the mouthpiece with my vintage hoses. I think the mouthpiece has some potential.
My other new Mistral I will probably dive it with the second stage mounted on my chest similar to Cousteau and the Calypso divers used to us it with the hydrodynamic suit and in other occasions. With this configuration, the inhalation should be far superior to any other system, but I am just playing and experimenting with it. I probably wont dive it much.
The only time I actually dove a new Mistral I did think it performed fairly well. The hoses are definitely buoyant, but that is because they are using re-breather hoses. A re-breather with the counter-lung doesnt have the pneumatic advantage of a regulator with its venturi. Therefore they use very large hoses that are not necessary in a well design regulator.
The diaphragm in the new Mistral is small like a single hose regulator, about 2.8 inches rather than the 4.2 inches in diameter on a vintage double hose. That is a major mechanical disadvantage of the new Mistral and the second stage demand valve is not pneumatically balanced or incorporates any other mechanism to compensate for this shortcoming. It is kind of like picking the worst of both worlds.
Any of my well tuned RAM and Phoenix RAMs with the new silicon diaphragms will outperform the new Mistral and most any regulator modern or vintage. The mechanical advantage of the large diaphragm allows a very simple, highly reliable mechanism, with performance that is hard to beat. I have all of my RAMs and Phoenix RAMs consistently set at 0.5inWC.
Over all the new Mistral is not a bad regulator, but in comparison to a Royal Aqua Master or a Phoenix Royal Aqua Master it leaves a lot to be desired.
A double hose regulator is quite different to a single hose regulator. There are definitely advantages and disadvantages to both.
IMHO the major disadvantage to a double hose (and one of the reasons that probably kill it in the 70s) was the extra maintenance required in other to preserve the hoses and the duckbill. The hoses and duckbill never really failed during a dive, but the sun, moisture, salt water, and bacteria could attach them between dives if not properly rinsed.
The lack of HP and LP ports for SPG and LP accessories like octopus, etc. also hurt their popularity.
The double hose has several advantages (like Nemrod mentioned):
No bubbles, the noise is behind you, it doesnt freeze etc.
IMHO the number one advantage of a double hose is related to the fact that they dont freeze and their high reliability.
Both the first and second stage are environmentally sealed. Diving in ice cold water or contaminated water is not a problem. Water, sand and other particles suspended in the water, and even the humidity in the exhaled air will not reach any mechanism since all exhaust goes out the exhaust hose. Check valves prevent the second stage from getting wet.
The first stage of most DH regulators is buried in the dry environment of the second stage.
The simplicity of most vintage double hose also makes them highly reliable. A regulator like the Aqua Master contains no O-ring (the RAM has one small O-ring). The fact that the first and second stage are in the same brass body with no LP hose or any kind of pressure connections to fail increases their reliability to a point that cant be achieved with a single hose regulator (or the new Mistral).
The service interval for a good double hose can be many years and then, the only thing that may really need replacing is the second stage seat. I have seen Aqua Masters that have not been serviced (only rinsed after diving) in almost 40 years that performed as good as new.
IMHO if your primary air source is extremely reliable, the importance of an alternate air source is substantially diminished.
Since I dive with divers using modern gear, I do have an octopus attached to my Phoenix Royal Aqua Master (or my other RAM). By adding that second stage I am adding points of failures and a higher probability of malfunction and free flow, but it adds to the comfort level of my buddies.
IMHO the major disadvantage to a double hose (and one of the reasons that probably kill it in the 70s) was the extra maintenance required in other to preserve the hoses and the duckbill. The hoses and duckbill never really failed during a dive, but the sun, moisture, salt water, and bacteria could attach them between dives if not properly rinsed.
The lack of HP and LP ports for SPG and LP accessories like octopus, etc. also hurt their popularity.
The double hose has several advantages (like Nemrod mentioned):
No bubbles, the noise is behind you, it doesnt freeze etc.
IMHO the number one advantage of a double hose is related to the fact that they dont freeze and their high reliability.
Both the first and second stage are environmentally sealed. Diving in ice cold water or contaminated water is not a problem. Water, sand and other particles suspended in the water, and even the humidity in the exhaled air will not reach any mechanism since all exhaust goes out the exhaust hose. Check valves prevent the second stage from getting wet.
The first stage of most DH regulators is buried in the dry environment of the second stage.
The simplicity of most vintage double hose also makes them highly reliable. A regulator like the Aqua Master contains no O-ring (the RAM has one small O-ring). The fact that the first and second stage are in the same brass body with no LP hose or any kind of pressure connections to fail increases their reliability to a point that cant be achieved with a single hose regulator (or the new Mistral).
The service interval for a good double hose can be many years and then, the only thing that may really need replacing is the second stage seat. I have seen Aqua Masters that have not been serviced (only rinsed after diving) in almost 40 years that performed as good as new.
IMHO if your primary air source is extremely reliable, the importance of an alternate air source is substantially diminished.
Since I dive with divers using modern gear, I do have an octopus attached to my Phoenix Royal Aqua Master (or my other RAM). By adding that second stage I am adding points of failures and a higher probability of malfunction and free flow, but it adds to the comfort level of my buddies.
Swimming back through just for a second before tending my fires I got going.
Some people confuse double hose regulators with diving vintage. True, I do enjoy vintage period diving --it is a blast--but the rig I pictured back a few pages is not vintage. The Hammerhead plate is new, the MachV wing is new, the Tekna guage is not new but--lol---it is state of the art and a very good depth guage, the spg is brass and glass, the Oceanic Omega II on the pony is of current production, the fins are ScubaPro Jets, the mask is Mares X Vision, the tank is brand new LP Faber 85. The only thing that is actually vintage there is the Royal Aqua Master and the FACT is that everything on it is highly modified with state of the art NEW manufacture parts. I don't do most of my diving VINTAGE, I PICK and CHOOSE through my equipment to select the very BEST for my dive trip or dive or whatever you call it. I don't use that double hose Phoenix RAM because it is vintage, I use it because it is the BEST there is and the best I have.
N<---eclectic diver
A piece of wisdom told me by some old geezer:
Fact: we are born, we live and then we die.
Opinion: that would be everything else between birth and death
Love: is forever and ever
Some people confuse double hose regulators with diving vintage. True, I do enjoy vintage period diving --it is a blast--but the rig I pictured back a few pages is not vintage. The Hammerhead plate is new, the MachV wing is new, the Tekna guage is not new but--lol---it is state of the art and a very good depth guage, the spg is brass and glass, the Oceanic Omega II on the pony is of current production, the fins are ScubaPro Jets, the mask is Mares X Vision, the tank is brand new LP Faber 85. The only thing that is actually vintage there is the Royal Aqua Master and the FACT is that everything on it is highly modified with state of the art NEW manufacture parts. I don't do most of my diving VINTAGE, I PICK and CHOOSE through my equipment to select the very BEST for my dive trip or dive or whatever you call it. I don't use that double hose Phoenix RAM because it is vintage, I use it because it is the BEST there is and the best I have.
N<---eclectic diver
A piece of wisdom told me by some old geezer:
Fact: we are born, we live and then we die.
Opinion: that would be everything else between birth and death
Love: is forever and ever
photohikedive
Guest
I have to admit, I was in awe when I saw that setup Nemrod. While I am not a pony bottle diver at this time, seeing that double hose rig with the bp/w was impressive. I have always liked the idea of diving a double hose rig, but didn't think they had a way to set one up with gauges and an inflator hose.
learning about the Phoenix conversion, I might have to look more seriously into getting that reg from my boss.
learning about the Phoenix conversion, I might have to look more seriously into getting that reg from my boss.
CentralTxDiver
Registered
High 5 to Nemrod...I too just prefer to dive the double hose Royal Aqua Master. Are we crazy...perhaps...no more so than the DIR guys and the 7ft long primary hose. The Royal Aqua Master was built like a tank and continues to perform/outperform most single hose plastic regs of today. Don't believe it...find a properly tuned and serviced RAM and see for yourself. Just because you don't get it don't knock it.
Yes, High 5 to Luis also who just happens to be the fellow who is the brains behind the Phoenix.
Yes, the Aqua Masters are like tanks, rugged, superbly reliable even after huge abuse.
What many don't know is that many modern Aqua Lung regulators have common lineage to the Royal Aqua Master, so much so that the parts in the first stage of the Titan/Conshellf can be used in a (Royal) Aqua Master and I believe the seat and components in my new un-Legendary looks awfully similar(as much as I have looked at) and I bet in that new Mistral also since it uses a Titan type first stage.
N
Yes, the Aqua Masters are like tanks, rugged, superbly reliable even after huge abuse.
What many don't know is that many modern Aqua Lung regulators have common lineage to the Royal Aqua Master, so much so that the parts in the first stage of the Titan/Conshellf can be used in a (Royal) Aqua Master and I believe the seat and components in my new un-Legendary looks awfully similar(as much as I have looked at) and I bet in that new Mistral also since it uses a Titan type first stage.
N
OP
Well, I dove the Mistral for the first time today -- it was a charm and reminded me what is so great about the double hose system.
I had fun.
Will it become my regular reg? No -- it will be used on special occasions -- and I'll probably use it more in warm water than in our cold water.
Question -- it appeared that the hoses (the air in the hoses) affected my weighting (a number of things affected my weighting today) -- but is there really enough air in the hoses to make me need more weight?
I had fun.
Will it become my regular reg? No -- it will be used on special occasions -- and I'll probably use it more in warm water than in our cold water.
Question -- it appeared that the hoses (the air in the hoses) affected my weighting (a number of things affected my weighting today) -- but is there really enough air in the hoses to make me need more weight?
Similar threads
